#59 – Family Crisis Intervention | Joni Makkonen

Ep. 59 - Podcast Thumbnail Title: Podcast Thumbnails

“Your personal relationship with yourself is the key to lead a healthy relationship.” 

Joni Makkonen  

Parenting requires love, kindness, caring and patience but there is no doubt that most of the time, conflicts arise making the relationship between the parents challenge its foundation affecting the family especially the children.

In this episode, Andrew and Sammy together with a special guest talk about the stumbling blocks of marriage and the coping mechanisms a professional counselor could advise to families who are experiencing problems and issues similar to this.

Be inspired to stop the stigma and normalize giving importance to emotional wellness just as much as physical wellness. Hop in, reflect and join the informative conversation to acknowledge the strong and weak points of your family that might help you in resolving problems in the future.

  • Empathy as a routine. 
  • Being guided is a big thing. 
  • Divorce or a separation is only shifting the conflict. 
  • Relationship issues play a big role. 
  • Reflecting on how you were as a child when something stressful happened, and how you responded to it, that is very likely to be a blueprint for how you’ll also act in situations as in your marriage as a parent. 
  • Neglect is actually its own form of abuse. 
  • A lot of our behavior is really rooted in our emotions. 
  • People are much more receptive towards constructive criticism. 
  • You deserve to have healthier and greater relationships. 
  • Everyone has their strong points, everyone has their weak points. 
  • Your personal relationship to yourself is the key to lead a healthy relationship. 
  • Love needs to breathe, love needs to be free, and then a love can grow.

Episode Transcript:

Andrew Love  

Welcome back to the podcast. Oh, which podcast? Love, Life and Legacy, silly. What’s that about? You say, well, let me tell you. It’s the definitive podcast for anybody looking to achieve sexual wholeness, sexual fulfillment as it pertains to your ideals to God and to world peace. And if that doesn’t wake you up, you just should not listen because you don’t want joy. Anyway, today’s episode is super cool. We have a guy all the way out in Germany being interviewed by Sammy, who deals in the business of crisis intervention. That means he’s a firefighter of the heart, and so he goes into messy situations and he helps people to avoid crucial disasters, and who doesn’t need that? So he lays out who his therapists are for and what it looks like to work on yourself in prevention. Don’t wait until a crisis occurs, prevent them from occurring at all by taking some precautionary steps. So let’s get into it with Joni from Germany.

Sammy Uyama  

Hello, everybody. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome to another episode of Love, Life and Legacy, the show about sex. I’m here today, a super awesome guest. I’m really excited to introduce Joni Makkonen, first of, an awesome friend, someone I met a couple years ago in Germany. One of the coolest guys I know, but also a trained counselor, licensed social worker, family coach, he does incredible work so I’m excited to have you here with us, Joni.

Joni Makkonen  

Hey, good morning, Sammy. Thank you so much for the kind words. Yeah, I’m so excited to be here to talk to you, I love talking to you anyway. So why not record a few minutes?

Sammy Uyama  

Yeah, we have so many awesome conversations. It’s a shame that we don’t just record them and put them out in the world.

Joni Makkonen  

Yeah, that’s a good point.

Sammy Uyama  

So I’ll let you talk about the work that you do, because to me, it’s incredible. And I also don’t think I can grasp the whole scope of all the many different things that you do, so I’ll let you introduce yourself as a professional.

Joni Makkonen  

Okay, well, what do I do? I help families and couples to lead great allies and relationships. Basically, around seven years ago, I started working as a family counselor, first for the bigger organization, to get close where I live. And yeah, how did I get into that? It was not always on my agenda to work with people in that way. I started studying sports for a little bit. I really liked sports, though, that was always my thing. But then after a while, I didn’t like the system. I didn’t really know where I was going with that, but I talked to my sister and she just said: You’re very good with people. You have so many friends, you’re great with interacting with people. So I just randomly applied for a different school back in Vienna where I lived at that time. I got in, it was great, and I really realized also from my life experiences that that could be a good fit to work with families. Always had pretty interesting, authentic relationships also in my family, not always easy, for sure, but I could really relate to a lot of things that people were going through. 

Joni Makkonen  

I worked at this organization for six years. It was a very, very great time. It was very great to learn a lot from a lot of professionals that were much older than me, and then around November 2019, I started my own family coaching business together with my colleagues that I met at the old organization. Yes, and what do I do? We actually do two things that are very much related with each other, content wise, but they are a little different regarding the structures. One thing is we actually work together with the government with the Child Protective Service, so one big project we still do is working with families that are in very difficult situations. Oftentimes, also the child’s well being is at risk, so there’re families that are in very difficult situations. For example, in Germany, I think of 40,000- 50,000 children each year are taken into custody because of domestic violence or neglect.

Joni Makkonen  

We’re there to help families stabilize their situation at home, work on their relationships and on their issues to actually help them keep their children. So that’s one big project that we’re doing, and the other branch that we’re also just working privately with families now. So not just families that are in very, very deep problems like that but also families who just want to invest their time and money privately into just making their families and relationships better. Oftentimes, we use the same kind of methodology, the same kind of tools and methods to help them. It’s very helpful to be trained in crisis situations for any kind of family situation, so that’s the structure that we’re working in right now. Of course, there’s a lot more to say about how and what kind of families we meet. But yes, that’s like a brief introduction.

Sammy Uyama  

Very well put. I remember when you first told me about your work, it’s a casual conversation like: What do you do for work? We’re riding in a car and I remember we’re taking a double crisis intervention, it’s such a lot at stake there. You’re the last line often between a child being taken away from their family or not, and there’s a lot at stake for the parents for these families. So this is incredible to hear and to know someone that does that kind of work, it’s something you expect to see on TV.

Joni Makkonen  

Yeah, it’s interesting. Sometimes I think about it and I go like: Oh yeah, I do a crazy job and it doesn’t really feel weird anymore because it’s a process, you get into that more and more. Also the crisis intervention is something that I slowly specialized in after some years, but now it feels so normal. With the crisis, working with crisis situations, it’s interesting. Of course, I never lose my empathy but it does become a routine after a while. Same way as policemen, a firefighter or emergency doctor, they just do their job. They’re like: Hi, someone broke their neck, let’s see if we can rescue them. 

Joni Makkonen  

Sometimes you just have to stay calm and cool, and do your job. We often have emergency plans that we make with families. I also have my own emergency plans, because obviously, I have to do a good job so that I don’t get in trouble, for example. I have to be quite aware of the situation. If I’m not sure about something, I really need to check it out. I have a few steps that I always go through to make sure. If I’m not sure about the situation, about some events that happen, then I just have to double check and then you get into a great routine normally.

Sammy Uyama  

It’s so reassuring to have people like that who are able to handle high stress situations. Just know that if something really crazy happens, they’re the rocks that you can rely on. Anyway, I want to throw that in there. I’m curious, the incidents and issues they talk about, I’m curious, what kind of stuff you’ve come across in your work regarding my specific family situations that you’ve seen

Joni Makkonen  

There’re so many genres that you like the most, out of different kinds of scenarios you can think of, you probably experienced it?

Sammy Uyama  

The point is to help people see the reality of what goes on in families, and to remember the challenges people face. We are a podcast, specifically about sex, so if there’s any, in that world that you’ve come across?

Joni Makkonen  

Okay. We know that I always say that there’s two tendencies of people to branch, is that people fall into it when they’re in stress. One is to overreact, to become impulsive, aggressive, that’s one tendency. The other tendency is to shut down, that’s our stress- coping mechanisms. That they’re also based on the attachment theory, there’s attachment types. There’s one type that’s called the insecure avoidant type and the other one is the insecure ambivalent type, so the ones that overreact and then the ones that shut down. Oftentimes, we deal with either violence, meaning that parents get stressed out, don’t know how to handle that children, start yelling at them, sometimes start beating them up. And then there are families where neglect, stress of being overwhelmed, it’s just a big topic, not really being able to take care of the children’s needs because they’re overwhelmed and just busy with their own background story. 

Joni Makkonen  

Oftentimes, obviously, you see a lot of patterns. I’ve actually never talked to a family that had a wonderful childhood and then had problems with their own children normally, doesn’t happen. For example, one mother, I really remember, it really touched me, she never really had a home, honestly speaking. She got taken into custody herself when she was a baby because her parents couldn’t take care of her. She was moved from group home to group home, back to her family, violence again, back into a different home. She grew up in eight different facilities in her most important years, between two and three so she has a lot of problems trusting people. She never really had anyone to bond to over a long amount of time. Yes, she also was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, and she was very impulsive. She was very much struggling with taking care of her son, at the same time, she was also spoiling his son because she was scared of losing that relationship. It was very hard for her to also be clear and strict about certain things. 

Joni Makkonen  

We worked a lot on actually being clear, having rules in the house and still calmly, being assertive is a word that I’ve learned in English lately. It’s a very great word, assertiveness, you can be calm and still clear. Oftentimes, that’s what we’re working on because every parent still wants to do the best for their children. They want to be good, they want to be loving, at the same time, they know: My child still needs orientation, they still need rules, guidelines. Being guided is a big thing, so to combine those two, it’s not easy if you don’t have your own emotional base, your own secure base because you’re either not so good at connecting empathetically because you didn’t receive any empathy, or you’re not so good at guiding, being a good role model because you never had one, or on the other hand, also because you’re scared to lose that kind of connection to your child. You think, if I’m being strict my child might turn their back towards me. Most of the time, it’s an irrational fear because our children love us and they need us, but that’s oftentimes something that people deal with. 

Joni Makkonen  

Regarding sex, you were asking? Yeah, it’s interesting, I would maybe start with the parents’ relationship in general and always play a huge role. Of course, we also have single moms/ single dads but even in those cases, with divorce and everything, oftentimes, there’s still a big conflict going on in the background between the father and the mother. I always say that a divorce or a separation is only shifting the conflict. It’s changing the conflict but if it wasn’t really a resolved harmonious divorce which also exists, then the conflict just keeps going. They both want to see the child, they have to make rules about who sees them, when, and oftentimes the child suffers because of the conflict between parents. It’s a very crucial point actually. If the mom hates the dad, for example, the child gets in a very difficult situation because 50% of the DNA it’s the dad, so oftentimes, they feel half of them is neglected, half of them are cut out. 

Joni Makkonen  

So it’s very stressful, and then, of course, relationship issues play a big role. Violence or even shouting between parents is considered domestic violence. By definition, if parents scream at each other, that’s actually already a reason to intervene. If a baby experiences parents heavily shouting at each other, that can emotionally cause them to feel life threatened. They don’t know what’s going on, they just feel a huge amount of tension. Babies are very, very sensitive. So why was I talking about this? Is because most people on this podcast probably know that we think that there’s a big relationship between the emotional connection, between parents and then sex, the physical connection. Oftentimes, there’s a big click in the emotional connection between parents, and sometimes we also talk about sex pretty clearly. High Noon has helped me talk about sex more comfortably and easily with anyone. I often bring topics up more initially now because of my volunteer work with High Noon. It’s been very helpful, actually.

Sammy Uyama  

Wow, that’s such an important detail we forgot to mention, that you’re actually a facilitator. 

Joni Makkonen  

Yes, that’s been fun too. People appreciate that actually, also in my work, to have some straightforwardness regarding that topic. It’s not always the topic but definitely comes up sometimes.

Sammy Uyama  

Appreciate that differentiation of the different kinds of how they react, distress themselves, and then the types of neglect that can manifest it because in the movies that’s like our only concept of this kind of world often, and it’s very aggressive. It’s like beating and very violent emotionally or verbally, but neglect is actually its own form of abuse. Things that can come up a lot, that gets understated often, and just the inability to actually take care of a child. Even when you’re talking about that, I thought about my own mom that I found out, my mom mentioned it very casually one time, but that she never actually owned her own toothbrush until she was 18 years old. 

Joni Makkonen  

Wow. 

Sammy Uyama  

And I think just a little bit I’ve heard about her own childhood growing up is that she would definitely fall into the category of neglect, being raised. Her parents have a lot of issues like World War, World War II, Veteran and that kind of thing. So that was insightful for me to hear that, I appreciate you talking about it. Although your experience working with these kinds of cases and looking at what’s the cause of them, what would you advise for people at, there’s different stages, they’re important, just like as an individual preparing to get married because people already in relationship, and even for parents, what would you advise to people as preventative measures or healthy measures to incorporate into their relationship?

Joni Makkonen  

That’s a very good question. I love preventative work, of course, even though oftentimes, I work with families where I think: Man, I wish we did this with them 10 years ago. First of all, I think it’s very important to know that no matter how good your intentions are, no matter how much you want to do things differently than your parents did, chances are very, very high that down the line, in stressful moments in your relationship, once you’re in a relationship, patterns will come up because the whole point is parenting and relationships in general, they’re not really that rational. A lot of our behavior is really rooted in our emotions. Especially in stressful moments, we tend to react emotionally, so the first thing I advise people to do is to ask yourself, how did your parents react towards you in stressful moments? Chances are high that you’re going to be able to tell me now that it was either very aggressive, or either very avoidant.

Joni Makkonen  

Maybe not very but on the spectrum of too aggressive, on a spectrum of too avoidant. Once you learn or reflect on that, there’s a high chance that you’re going to be similar in stressful moments with your spouse, with your children. So already reflecting on that, working on that, learning about that is a very helpful thing because also, a lot of times you feel guilty. I remember that the first time I got angry with my children, I felt so guilty, I felt so bad. I learned a lot about my work at that time and I was like: Gosh, why are you doing that? it’s like: Don’t you know that yelling at your children is bad. That’s the whole point, we all know what’s good for our children rationally. It’s pretty easy to break it down what our children need, but chances are high that you’re going to be confronted with it. 

Joni Makkonen  

So to reflect on what you experienced as a child in stressful moments is very helpful to prepare. I’m coaching a lot of parents, so oftentimes, if you detected something like that, some behavior in that sense, how you react under stress, I think there’s obviously different ways that you can approach that. People meditate to be more calm and less impulsive. People go to therapy if they have a tendency to be very depressed, for example, or to avoid conflict. There are different ways, always feel free to contact me, of course. We do a lot of online coaching nowadays but the whole point is I like the High Noon principle of being authentic and being very open in your communication. It’s the very first step as well. How we get to that point of raw connection also with our clients is by first, looking at all the great things. You should start doing that with yourself as well. Once you feel guilty about how you are as a partner, or as a dad, or as a mom, you can reflect you on why am I that way? You can look back in your childhood, but then the next step is very important, to be aware of all your strong points.

Joni Makkonen  

Just write them down on why you’re a great dad? Why are you a great Mom? Why you’re great spouse? We always do that, I’ve mentioned a few families where there’s so much bullshit going on. Sorry, I don’t know if you can, how much you can swear on this podcast but every single family, we start looking at the resources. We started, okay, what’s this family good at? What’s this family good at, and how can that help us manage this crisis situation because there’s so much potential in the resources. And then once you figured out all the resources, then you can become more honest about the weak points. People can get very defensive. Also, if you reflect about yourself, you can even get defensive because you don’t want to admit that it has a lot to do with ego, but it’s also a coping mechanism. You know that you have both sides in you, strong points and weak points, but there needs to be always time to acknowledge all the strong points in a family. 

Joni Makkonen  

First and I always asked for permission: Hey, I really want to work with you on your strong points, I really want to understand how great your family is, and all the good things that you’re doing as a family already, all the things that worked in the past. Everything, give me everything, I want to hear it out. We build up the family, we really want to hear all about that, and then you can also reflect on it. I asked for permission: Hey, is it okay if I also understand what was going on? What was very difficult for you? Can I also share about my worries that I have regarding the topic XYZ. And normally after that, you could really strengthen someone by acknowledging all the good things. People are much more receptive towards constructive criticism.

Sammy Uyama  

Reflecting on how you were as a child when something stressful happened, and how you responded to it, that is very likely to be a blueprint for how you’ll also act in situations as in your marriage as a parent. So then, what do you suggest for people to do with that information? Once they want to do that inside like: My dad, he always emotionally shut down and he would disappear for a couple hours, and he never confided, something like that, and then to know that about myself, and what should I do with that?

Joni Makkonen  

It’s connected to my second point that I was mentioning, it depends on what kind of resources you have to train yourself to try out a healthier approach. Some people have a lot of resources because for example, the mom was very good with confronting certain conflicts so they know both. They might have this tendency of their dad, who was always shutting down, but then they also know how to do it from their mom, for example. You can try to detect it, and then try to make a conscious effort to be more confronting. Try it out carefully to be more confronting and then see, normally, chances are high that nothing bad will happen if you change your strategy regarding that. Then you can gain some self confidence: Okay, I tried it out differently, and it worked out in a better way. Especially with confronting people, they’re scared to lose some love from their partner if they do that.

Joni Makkonen  

That works to a certain extent, it differs. If you are aware of it, you reflected on it, and you’re trying out to be more confronting or you’re trying to be more calm in a conflict, your own kind of resources that you have, your own ideas on how to change that, maybe meditate in the morning or reflect in the evening, whatever it is, if you notice that you keep getting into that pattern, then I honestly think it’s never too early to get someone else involved. Go to someone that you really respect, there’s a lot of great people out there and maybe there’s someone in your natural network already that can be an emotional rock for yourself that you can share with an older bro or older sis, we always do that in our work as well. 

Joni Makkonen  

We always look at what other resources in the network? Sammy, we talk a lot as well, I’ve had moments in my life where I really needed people to talk to. I did also talk to professionals about certain topics but to have a natural network, it’s very important to have someone also who’s not so connected to the family, to talk to about the situation. We have a lot of methods in our repertoire, working or communication skills that are very important to be more constructive if you are in a very difficult situation. If you notice that this pattern always comes up, of course there’s always a professional. Don’t wait, if the thought came across your mind that I maybe should check out a professional, then you most definitely should. 

Joni Makkonen  

You can never do that too late. It’s also a stigma, still a big stigma, around getting professional help and that’s actually something I’m very passionate about. Why do people still see that way, that getting professional help is such a big deal? You also go get a fitness coach, and no one is looking at you like: Oh man, you really need a fitness coach or man, you really must be very unhealthy. No one does that. Regarding emotional fitness, it’s still considered: He needs help, he has a big problem or whatever. People should see it as a way of emotional wellness. It’s something that you deserve. You deserve to figure out your emotions. You deserve to have healthier and greater relationships. If there are ways that can help you with it, there’s literally nothing wrong with it. It’s really honorable to me.

Sammy Uyama  

Back to that fitness example, it’s ironic, you look at the people who invest the most into their health, it’s the people you think needed the least. It’s always the fittest people, or most religious about getting their workout and going to the gym, or like LeBron James is like the last person who probably needs someone telling you what he should be eating, what kind of exercise you’re doing but he spends. I read, I listen to a podcast that’s interviewing him, he spends literally millions of dollars a year on his body. Nutrition experts and muscle experts or whatever, to keep them in top form. So exactly what you’re saying is like no one bats an eye at that. It makes sense, but when it comes to our emotional health, it’s the exact opposite. People think it’s only people with problems that do that kind of thing, it’s that stigma that you’re talking about.

Joni Makkonen  

Exactly. Man, thank you for widening my great experience. That was an even better example for what I was talking about. I’m going to use that, Sammy, in the future. LeBron James, and that’s a good one. Very well put, that’s exactly how I see it. Also, whenever you become a licensed social worker, a therapist, a counselor or whatever, a big part of becoming a stepping into that occupation is self reflection. You learn a lot about methods, about communication skills and tools, you learn a lot about all kinds of things, but you also learn to understand your own situation. Becoming a therapist, you have to go through therapy yourself to, first of all, be authentic. 

Joni Makkonen  

And secondly, also not get triggered by everything that’s happening in families, you have to be able to handle it. I, myself, also invested a lot in myself already. Mentors and coaches and counselors, that’s to me, a no brainer to do that, to keep investing in myself. Last year, before 2019, when I was still employed, every year my company paid thousands of euros for training for me and my colleagues. Now, I’m self employed, we have our own business. We’ve paid thousands and thousands of euros in coaching for ourselves, in mental coaching, in business coaching, in any kind of coaching, though that’s something as you said, that’s just something that should be so much more normal. Probably Americans out there listening, euros if that’s the type of money that they.

Sammy Uyama  

Oh yeah. I’m sure everyone knows what that is. The world does not just revolve around America, and its dollars. So one thing I respect about you so much Joni, is that you don’t pretend to have it all together like you’re this very qualified expert in this field of relationships, especially within the family, but you also recognize that you’re susceptible to the same blind spots and pitfalls that anyone experiences in a marriage. And then so you do all these things like invest in your own relationship and yourself, and when things do come up, you have your network that you’re talking about. You  confide in others. Tou’ve called me a number of times, talked about what’s going on and that’s really remarkable quality that you don’t pretend that just because you’re relationship expert, that you never deal with any of those things. 

Sammy Uyama  

I think that’s such a valuable point for people listening, because there’s people that are like that in different fields. Anyone in any kind of leadership or authoritative position, that’s a personal struggle that they deal with, like as a pastor, that you’re supposed to be the spiritual rock for people and that you’re never allowed to waiver in your faith at all, or to have any problems back in your family life, that everything’s just supposed to be perfect. And so someone’s speaking from that kind of place as well, it’d be really powerful for people to see the reality of what people deal with.

Joni Makkonen  

Yes, thank you, Sammy. It’s a very important point, actually. I’m still on the journey, figuring out life. Everyone is, and no matter how educated or qualified you are, no matter what kind of experiences you went through, I learned the best lessons from the most messed up people in my work. Everyone has their strong points, everyone has their weak points. In my intro, I briefly said, in my own family, I had very authentic relationships so I think that trade comes from my dad. My dad had a lot of issues, or still has some. He had a very, very tough childhood, his dad passed away when he was a child, it was very traumatic for him. But what I learned from my dad was to pour your heart out, to not hold anything back. My dad was always so great at calling everything out and having family meetings, whenever it was very tough and difficult. He also basically taught me how to say sorry, how you stand up for your mistakes, for your flaws.

Joni Makkonen  

Your personal relationship to yourself is the key to lead a healthy relationship. If you don’t have relationship to yourself, a healthy one, it’s very difficult for you to have a healthy relationship to others and to your spouse. When I realized: No matter what, I will be okay, I have to be okay, and I have to be happy no matter what happens. Anything could happen. There could be a crazy accident happening. How would I be doing? Of course it’s okay to be sad and to reflect, or you can work through trauma but the mindset is so important because otherwise, if you try to cage your status quo, if you try to cage your love that you’ve built, it’s not going to work, it’s not going to keep growing. So there was a very important lesson for me. You can’t force anyone to be your friend, you can force your wife to still love you, if she doesn’t at the moment, and that’s okay. Love needs to breathe, love needs to be free, and then a love can grow.

Sammy Uyama  

Wow. I think exactly what you talked about and Jesus says like those who seek to die shall live and those who seek to live shall die. It’s like the more we hold on to something, then it slips between our fingers, and then as soon as you let go. So Joni, thank you so much for the time to share and be here with us. And you’ve mentioned that you are right now working as a family coach, so for those listening that want to reach out to you or thinking maybe what Joni does would be good for me, one, what kind of people would be good to reach out to you and then two, how can they contact you?

Joni Makkonen  

Okay, so one thing is that, if you’re dealing with any kind of violence in your family, any kind of highly stressful situations and crisis situations in your family, I’m very familiar with that kind of stuff. So of course, if you consider yourself being in a crisis, personally, or in a relationship right now, it doesn’t hurt to reach out to me. It definitely could be a good idea, and as we talked in our talk here, as we mentioned, Sammy and I are both fans of preventive work. If you notice that your family patterns, your patterns of your own childhood get in your way sometimes, that causes you to be scared or if you’re just fearful around that topic, and you feel stuck, you don’t have to be necessarily in a crazy crisis situation, especially regarding parenting. If things are not that harmonious, if you’re struggling with something, we have a very specific focus on attachment theory on how relationships, how the connection between people comes first, and then parenting can happen as a result from that. So if that speaks to you, you can reach out to me anytime. And then regarding my personal situation, and also in my work, even though we’re mostly focused on parenting, we also deal with a lot of couples that come to us. If you’re having a hard time with your spouse, give it a try. And how do you guys contact me? That’s a good question. We still didn’t even translate our website into English, it’s just in German at this point. So I’m maybe just going to give you my email address. 

Sammy Uyama  

Yeah, we’ll link that so people can contact you. Some people only listen, they don’t check the notes. So your email is?

Joni Makkonen  

Okay. The email is info@dasrelationship.com, I’m going to spell it out: dasrelationship.com. Our name dasrelationship is our company’s name. Relationship means in english of course, and then D-A-S basically means The Relationship. I’m not going to explain the details, it’s like wordplay in German but whatever.

Sammy Uyama  

Alright, so that’s your email, we’ll link that so people can find the written version. So anybody that is dealing with old behavioral patterns that’s getting in the way of your marriage or your parenting, which sounds like just about everybody is dealing with some behavioral patterns, getting in the way of your relationships, you’re a good candidate to contact Joni, and is a really great friend of mine. I really vouch for him. He’s a phenomenal guy to have supporting you, and your corner, and you’re in the boxing ring with life, and you want to win and have raised a great family, is a fantastic person.

Joni Makkonen  

Thank you so much for your work.

Sammy Uyama  

You provide your services in German and English. I’m presuming.

Joni Makkonen  

Yeah, no problem. Exactly. And Chinese, just kidding.

Sammy Uyama  

Alright, so for our ginormous Chinese audience. Thank you, Joni, it’s really good to catch up.

Joni Makkonen  

Thank you too, Sammy. This was great, and Sammy is doing so great. He is such a great coach, so much fun. And again, like High Noon is so great, guys. Thank you so much for doing what you’re doing. I’ve adapted a lot of High Noon mindsets into my work so I’m very grateful for that as well.

Sammy Uyama  

Yeah, I appreciate knowing that. It’s really cool to work together, like I mentioned, you’ve been such a big support for High Noon, facilitating, leading recovery groups, and it’s really comforting having you on a corner just whenever something comes up knowing that there’s someone we can consult on how to deal with certain situations. It’s just fun to have an excuse to hang out more.

Joni Makkonen  

Yes, that’s true. All right. So thank you so much, Sammy.

Sammy Uyama  

Yes. Thank you, Joni. Thank you all for listening. And we’ll see you guys next time.

Andrew Love  

Hello everybody, Andrew Love here, and I just wanted to add one more point. High Noon is a nonprofit organization and we are run by donations. And although we’ve been doing okay, thanks to the massive generosity of our founders, the wolf and burgers, we want to expand higher, higher, higher, higher. We want to make a global impact. We want to reach every family, we want to change the culture. And for that to happen, we’re going to need a lot of volunteers and a lot of staff. That’s just the reality, it takes money to travel, it takes money to do a lot of the things we do. And we want to let you be a part of this growth, and so what we’ve created is a Donor’s Club, which is a $10 a month club, and when you join, you get a T shirt, mailed to your door, you can get some exclusive content and we also have some really good goodies for our tribe of people who are part of the Donor’s Club, that we’re going to talk about in the coming months. 

Andrew Love  

So I just wanted to invite you to be one of these people. Everybody can afford $10 a month, it’s just a matter of whether it’s a priority. So if you feel High Noon has impacted you positively or your family, or somebody you know, please consider donating. I don’t want you to give any money unless you really, really want to. But if you do want to I encourage you to really, really donate. So $10 a month is I don’t know, a cat a month. I don’t know how to measure it. It’s a giant hamburger and french fries a month that you can sacrifice in order to help this world become a more habitable, more enjoyable, more connected, more loving place. So please consider joining our Donor’s Club, it’s just $10 a month. We look forward to seeing you on the inside of our secret society for donors. Have a good day, everybody.

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