#74 – In Laws: How to Love Bigger & Better | John & Sandra Lowen

Ep. 74 - Podcast Thumbnail Title: Podcast Thumbnails

A relationship must be built from trust, respect, and faith to pass the trials and struggles in life together. Creating a harmonious relationship makes each person grow, live happily, and create a family with good values and full of positivity.

In this episode, we invited John and Sandra Lowen, an amazing couple that represents heaven and earth. They’ll be sharing with us how to unravel the mysteries of love, their journey as a couple, and help us understand how God works in marriage and within couples. Carina Cunningham interviews them about the lessons they learned from each other, the importance of loyalty, a real understanding of the Divine Principle, and a relationship full of gratitude and love.

Each relationship is unique and with understanding, and by creating good relationships with your parents, you also shape yourself into a future parent that’s very supportive, full of wisdom and knowledge. Listen to learn more.

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  • The final piece of the creation is man understanding woman
  • Understanding his character by finding his Jewish roots
  • The real power of being a daughter or son in law
  • Three blessings of God
  • Filial piety
  • Purpose of the blessing
  • Responsibility of parents
  • Being a good parent
  • Being fearless, sitting with our wounds, and helping each other heal

Episode Transcript:

Andrew Love 

Welcome back to Love, Life, and Legacy, a podcast dedicated to helping you navigate these hyper-sexualized times of ours. And in today’s episode, Carina is interviewing an amazing couple that represents heaven and earth probably better than any other couple I could imagine. Because John is one of the greatest talkers of this generation of hours of humanity. If you stick a quarter to him, he’ll just go off and he’ll just take you to a very amazing place. But his wife, Dr. Sandra, she is very grounded, very professional, very austere, very regal, and wonderful.  Together, they form the super couple and Carina is unraveling the mysteries of love, and helping to understand how God works in marriage and within couples. But you just got to listen to these people speak. Again, Doctor Sandra’s just very professional. And here she sounds like a queen. John always refers to her as his queen. Then you hear him speak and you just feel like you’re on the streets of New York listening to a street poet. It’s really wonderful. So enjoy your time here, you’re going to learn a lot guaranteed or your money back. Let’s welcome John and Sandra Lowen.

Carina  

Hello everyone. Here is Carina again for a new episode of the High Noon podcast. And today we have such an incredible, incredible couple, Sandra and John Lowens. I don’t know if you hear them. But they are an amazing couple from the 1800 couple. They have over 60 years of clinical experience between them and have addressed a wide range of family and couple issues, from assisting couples and families in dealing with everyday miscommunication problems, to helping them to tackle trauma and dangerous issues.  Today I invited them so we can talk about prevalence with in-laws. But first of all, I want them to present themselves, to introduce themselves.  Welcome Sandra and John, Uncle John.

John Lowen  

Well, great to be here. And I want to show off this beautiful woman, and the reason she’s so beautiful is that she’s got a smile that she doesn’t put on. It comes from her heart. Because she knows she’s loved not just by God, but by you know who, and I’m so proud to be the cause of a beautiful woman’s happiness or have something to do with it. I feel bad for all my brothers out here. We have not yet experienced that, so we want to help you to have that experience of being the most powerful man in the world that can put the icing on the completion of the completion. This is God’s final piece of creation, woman. But the final piece of the creation is man understanding woman. Then this smile comes. That’s the real power. I got it, brothers. 

Carina  

Wow. So romantic.

John Lowen  

Oh, just true. 

Carina 

Can everyone feel the fire here? Oh my God.

Sandra Lowen 

Down to the glowing coals today. John is the love of my life. I care so much so deeply for him. And he’s really helped me appreciate my own life. He talks about love and really, your beauty is the mirror that you see in your spouse’s eyes. It’s such an amazing thing to get up in the morning. My hair is all over the place. I have no makeup on. I’m wearing my old pajamas. I staggered to the bathroom but he’s in there and he goes “Wow, you look beautiful today.”Well, his dad sees me or God might think “Well, you could clean up a little bit.”That what he sees in me every morning and I’m so grateful, the most wonderful guy that I know.

Carina 

Wow. So beautiful. So everyone, listen. They may have their names, studies and experience, but besides everything about helping others, they represent an amazing couple that shows so much love within them. Rob and  I have the pleasure to be helped by them. In the beginning stage, it was really a great foundation for our relationship right now. And I think Robert learned so much from Uncle John because he does the same, so thank you so much for being here and for always having this harder feeling for people.

John Lowen 

I think, just excuse me for cutting in for very briefly. I think you made a very important point that all the knowledge in the world doesn’t mean much. You don’t have experience. I mean Lucifer knew more than all of us, still knows more than all of us. But he doesn’t know love. What I’m most proud of, like I said, I’ve won the trust of the harbor woman, and you can’t learn that in school. There’s no PhD for it. That steps into the realm of 5% responsibility, which we’ll talk about later and dealing with in-laws and everything connected to that.

Carina 

Yes. I guess it’s a really great point. Starting to deal with this point about an in-law, whatever this is, starting with the question, what makes this relationship unique? What is the relationship between son and daughter-in-law? The mother, or father-in- law, what is so unique about this, and why is it so challenging sometimes? 

John Lowen  

Well, I’d like to be an expert. I’ve had some amazing experiences with my mom that altered my destiny. And she’ll share some of that. I’ve got other things to share later. 

Sandra Lowen  

Well, every parent thinks that his child or her child is the most amazing person on earth. That’s almost old, unless you were in bitter battles with your parents. When I met John, he’s the younger son, and therefore the one that they spoiled and loved, whatever other emotions were going on there. A lot of times, especially women want to make their sons, their “little husbands”, as I call it. The son is whatever frustration they’re feeling in their husband, often. The mom wants to be very close to the son, and no woman in the world is good enough for him. And that’s what a lot of moms think. So knowing this, when I met John’s mother, of course, she immediately wanted to dominate the relationship.   I remember she took my hand in a very uncomfortable way. She’s walking. And a lot of my thoughts would have been well, I shouldn’t do it this comfort, because she’s the mother-in-law. But I thought “No, if I do that, then I’ll be uncomfortable all my life.” So I’m sure now my hands were more comfortable. And I think it surprised her that I was not going to let her be dominant in that way. When I would go to visit John, because his dad loved him so much, and his father, people don’t necessarily know this, but his father was a, how could I describe this position?  Well, he was the son of a model. He was the founding dean of New York State graduate school for computer science, who really thought deeply about a number of things.He wrote a book that was an upgrade on Carl Jung, those personality types that were very profound, but stuck with my dad quite a bit. Some of the things that you all use many times when you’re doing the matching process. His dad was an expert on that, and enlarged on that. He would take John to his office, and often I was left there with the mother-in-law, and I did it. So we began to forge a relationship that became closer and closer. We are diametrically different people. I’m very religious, she is very atheistic. And, of course, our social backgrounds. And all of those things were quite different. But we found that we could talk a lot, and I listened to her. And I asked her about her background and “What was going on in your life? And what were you like, when you were my age? How did you feel when you married your husband?” and so on, so that I could get some things from her. And also, when there were situations in their family and John could tell you about them, I could talk about the bar mitzvah.

John Lowen 

Sure. Just before I want to just add something before Sandra talks about the bar mitzvah, Sandra certainly was a powerful listener, but she also let it be known that respect was going to be in the house. And when she started talking about Moon and this, my mother didn’t attack her or she didn’t become an apologist, but she just got real straight and real and said “What do you know about Reverend Moon? My mother is used to being, she has her own circle of friends.  As human beings, our circle of friends are people we are comfortable with, which is another way of saying “We don’t get too many challenges.” A lot of times, we’re stuck. We don’t really grow, though. We’re comfortable. And she wasn’t used to people like Sandra, who was very respectful, but also demands respect, if you will. When my mother crossed the line, she found out very quickly, like “You’re not going to just make your opinion, the law here.” On one hand, a great listener, on the other hand, very direct with my mother. “What do you actually know about Reverend Moon?” The opinions yet. And then, I think that changed the dance with you.

Sandra Lowen  

Because she became more respectful, because I could stand for myself and not just accept her opinion. And not just like “Yeah, yeah.” kind of thing. I know that there are people that have different experiences in our movement. Some parents are very enthusiastic about the movement. Some maybe even the parents are no longer connected directly to the movement, but stating your purpose and your ideas, respectfully. But also in a way that lets them know,”This is what I feel. This is what I believe, and we can discuss it.” But we’re not going to make just blanket statements about anything. I looked at two experiences that I had with John’s mother that involved John’s mother. The first, John did not have a bar mitzvah when he was 12 years old, because their family’s Jewish. And usually, when you’re 12 years old, the boy is declared to be a man. And he goes through that very special ceremony of that rite of passage of recognition within the Jewish community. But John did not have that, and there’s a long story about that. I wrote a book. We’ll talk about that another time. But…

John Lowen 

Let me just give them a quick little background. My father came of age in Nazi Germany, and escaped the Holocaust by 10 minutes. He was traumatized his whole life. He escaped Nazi Germany, but he brought the Holocaust spiritually and emotionally with him. He was trying to separate from his trauma. He was so upset the way he was treated, and that there was nothing he could do about it. He said “I’ll be gone if my kids go through this.” I was raised not knowing I was Jewish, and my mother, when she married my father, decided that what good came out of being Jewish from their perspective. That my mother was sexually abused by the rabbi, as a young girl. No one took a stand for her because they didn’t want the rabbi to look bad.  Their feeling was “What’s so great about being Jewish? One, it will get you killed. Two, she was also disowned by her family. Therefore, it was a good rhythm. And I was raised not knowing I was Jewish, but it created an emotional and spiritual void that even I was not aware of entering my Messiah when I started.

Sandra Lowen 

Right. I told John, I thought it would be good for him to understand his character by really going and finding his Jewish roots. At the age of 40, he received the bar mitzvah. And of course, we invited everybody to come, but we didn’t think that many people would show up. We then asked our rabbi to invite people from the congregation to come. 

John Lowen  

And the reason Sandra correctly stated that we didn’t think that many people would come because my mother’s family hadn’t spoken to my mother, since they disowned her when she left the Jewish faith. 

Sandra Lowen 

Right. Now, John was 40, so she was probably in her late 60s at that time. We were at the service, and the temple was packed with people, only one relative of his was actually speaking to him at that time. And we invited her and of course, he came, but the temple was packed. And I said to the rabbi “I’m so happy that you invited so many people.” And he said “I don’t know who these people are.” So we had the service.  There’s one part in the service where someone is asked to come up and support the new man in the community, which was John. And the rabbi asked “Who is here to support this new Jewish man?” Half the men in the congregation got up and stood behind him. Well this was a great shock to us. Because again, we still didn’t know who all of them were. But as we got ready to walk out of the service, and go to the refreshment of these people made online. John’s parents walked through this line, and she recognized them because they were her brothers and her sisters and her aunts and uncles. He has not talked to his cousins, and their cousin’s children.  All the people she had not seen for over 40 years. Here is the situation, because she was declared dead by her family back when she was 20. They actually had a funeral for her.

Carina  

Oh my gosh.

Sandra Lowen  

Because they said “You’re kicked out of the Jewish faith, so you’re dead. You don’t exist anymore.” But she had a son that was Jewish, who became Jewish. And he became Jewish after the time that she had been kicked out. He could not be Jewish without a mother who was Jewish. Therefore, she was Jewish, related to them. And they had to accept her back into the family. So they came in person and said “Oh, Sylvia. We thought you were dead. But you have a son, and he’s a Jewish son. You must be alive. Welcome. Welcome home.” And they each embraced her. Everyone came to embrace her in this beautiful moment in her life.  As her daughter-in-law, trying to do what I thought was good for my spouse, I do good for the whole family. And at the end of her life, just before she was getting ready to go to a nursing home, we were in the kitchen washing dishes, and she came over and took both my hands and she looked at my eyes and she said “You know, I’ve been an atheist all my life, and I don’t know if there is God or not, but if there is God, he brought you to our family.” 

Carina  

Wow. 

John Lowen  

So beautiful.

Sandra Lowen  

 That’s what we can do for each of these families. That’s the real power of being a daughter-in-law or a son-in-law, is that you restore not only your own family but even people that you have no idea about. Because those people could be in touch with her for the rest of their lives. And ultimately, I feel that they were the best for it. And we were always close. And I think that’s what I would say about being an in-law, is that sometimes I refer to them as “in-loves”. You’re an in-law, but actually you love that person. So my daughter in-law becomes my daughter-in-love. It’s that kind of thing. Just to understand each other, you really do become one family.

John Lowen  

Extraordinary. And the reason I feel the way I do is that she calmed the tortured ancestors and tortured me looking for a way out of this brutal understanding of God. That you have to follow the law or your debt because this kind of talk about my ancestors. And I wasn’t just talking about my ancestors, but Jewish people. When we followed all the rules, no one was more obedient than us, who crossed all the T’s and dotted all the I’s. But we didn’t see, so Sandra understands. Sometimes she’s a lion.  We are hardwired to be male or female. But my father didn’t give birth to me out on the battlefield. He didn’t pray to Zeus. And I came out of his sword and I came from my mother. Hard wired as a man, but I’m half created by, my mother representing the feminine side of God, and my father representing the man. So Sandra is a warrior. She’ll let my mother know “You’re not going to mess with me, because I’m in a battle, I will cut you to ribbons, because I know who I am better than you know who you are.” So the battle for men is really about the first blessing in terms of my understanding. And I’m going to bring this all connected into in-laws in just a moment. But basically, we’re talking about The Blessing here. When we’re talking about the second blessing, God gave three blessings: to be fruitful, to multiply and to take dominion, and they’re all related. So the first blessing at least from the Jewish perspective, the mystical Jewish perspective, the first blessing is the realm of men, to figure out who you are. And that’s a brutal battle.  And father, he went through that brutal battle.When he discovered Divine Principle, God didn’t just give them a pass and say “Oh, son, I’m so grateful for this journey.” God denied Him. God tested him and said “This is garbage.” Twice, he did that. On the third time, Sandra had to stand up to my in-laws, and that took something. She had to stand up to my cynical Jewish ancestors, who had all kinds of resentment for all kinds of insane things that happened throughout history, including the Holocaust. But love is stronger than all of that, which is what it comes down to all of us. But father, he didn’t just have to stand up to his in-laws, father had to stand up to God. And say “I asked for your blessing to anoint the Divine Principle two times. But I didn’t come to ask you this time. I’m coming here to tell you,this is the truth with which I will say with or without your help. And then God said “Oh, I see. I have a son.” My point is this, we talk a lot about filial piety, and it’s very important. But filial piety to God and filial piety to our in-laws, or even our own parents are two very different things. Because Mr. And Mrs. God, they’re not fighting over who’s treating, who’s right, right? And Mrs. God is not telling her husband that “I got a headache tonight. Let’s not get intimate.” They’ve worked their stuff out. When we get loved by God, it’s the unified masculine and feminine together, most of us have never experienced them. I have expressed my dad’s love and I experience my mom’s love, but I haven’t experienced the love of my mom and dad as one, so I’m psychotic. There are two Johns. This is the issue that we have to become whole. Everything goes through three regenerations. Our generation for the most part just wouldn’t like it, says “Abraham fell asleep at the time of the offering.” That means symbolically, he was unconscious. A lot of our first generation I hate to say it, but we were asleep. Meaning, we didn’t fully understand The Blessing. We think “We were successful because we didn’t leave.” The purpose of The Blessing is not just so you can say “I can’t stay with you  but I stayed anyway. “In terms of in-law. The point that I want to make is that you have to check how happy your parents are. And the couple of your in-laws, because if they are really happy and owners of love, they’re not going to be causing problems in your world. Most of the problems come from that they feel some embarrassment or shame that they’ve been unconscious about what the purpose of The Blessing was. And I’m grateful for them holding on. But The Blessing is much, much, much, much more than just holding off.  So my point is you need to do an assessment and know that it’s not just filial piety; it’s filial piety for the purpose of The Blessing. And maybe your couple will redeem the unconsciousness of your parents or your in-laws. Sometimes, Sandra described the beauty of when it really works. Some people are tortured by their in-laws or even their own parents, and we need to speak a voice of inspiration for those people because just talking about the ideal is not going to get it done for them.

Carina  

Yes. Thank you so much. I felt we touched everything, isn’t it like ” Hey, if you look at things, it’s not that you’re right, but your circumstances that everyone is willing to accept the help you can get to hear, isn’t it?” I think the sample is the potential that a good relationship between their in-law and their parents can have, isn’t it? I think that is amazing.  Let’s think about a woman and a wife who are struggling with their love. Where should we first step like she doesn’t have the maturity that Sandra has a vaccine? She’s that insecure woman. Just to start being, she leaves all her life thinking that she needs to follow everything that they stole and failing her. And now, suddenly, she’s wary and she loves her husband, but the situation with their in-laws is affecting their relationship. What should be her first step?

Sandra Lowen  

Well, the first thing for any couple to realize is that their primary loyalty is to each other.  I didn’t marry my dad. I married John. I didn’t marry my brothers, or the central figure, or any of those people. I married John, and John is the one who is the other half of me. And it’s we two that get together and reflect God’s image, like a mirror. If I’m trying to put someone else in that position, that strong position, then that’s not I’m out of integrity with God, because no matter how wonderful my central figure is, when he comes in, he’s with me. I’m not really reflecting God. I’m reflecting half of my couples, and he’s reflecting half of his couple life.  Therefore, I need first of all, to recognize.This is the bond. This is what is important. So I know that sometimes husband or wife is thinking “Oh, well, my dad feels this way, or my dad feels that way, and I have to support my dad.” But actually the one you have to support unless there’s really something that’s off base is your spouse.  There comes a point when, as parents ourselves, we can give our opinion, we can give advice, if it’s asked for. But for me to go to my son’s house and say “You know, this blue wall should be red, or this orange tablecloth should be brown.” That’s not really our ideal. And that’s sometimes the responsibility of parents to realize their role changes once there is the spouse in the picture.  Now, what if the spouse, if the parent doesn’t realize that then the son or daughter needs in a very respectful way to say “Dad, I love you. I know you want the best for me, Sally, and I have decided we’re going to move to Missouri, and that’s our decision. We really want your blessing to do that. Rather than just saying “Oh, well, I don’t know. My mom and dad don’t really want us to go here or there or whatever.” And certainly, it’s fine to hear the objection of the other parents.  But sometimes people, I’ve seen in-laws or had situations in which in-laws, pull the child away to the side and go “You really don’t want to move to Missouri, do you? You really don’t want to leave us here in Kansas, we’ll be all lonely and everything will miss you.” That’s not godly. It’s really not godly. There’s some reason why you shouldn’t go to Missouri, he’s wanted in Missouri and will go to jail, or something horrible. That’s one thing. But if there is really, once the couple has made a decision, that decision should have a certain finality. But husband and wife need to be inseparable.  What you’ll find when you get further down the line is that even your children will try to separate you. So it’ll be “Mommy, can I have, can I go to play at Billy’s house?”,”No, you can’t go to Billy’s house.”, “Daddy?” And they will do that. That’s why husband and wife need to start at the very beginning, learning that John really set a good standard with our family in which he would say to our son. This word is that your mom and I will talk.

John Lowen  

Well, he would put me on the spot. And I said “No, no, that’s not your place. Yes. We’re going to consider it. Your mother and I will meet with you not being here. Yes. And we’ll work it out.”

Sandra Lowen  

Also, sometimes your children will go to your in-laws, and they will try to make a deal with the in-laws. That’s why mom and dad need to be so close that nothing can separate them, and that starts in the couple. So that when you get into mom and dad who love you, and they’re all “You poor thing. Little Billy wants to go play in and over at the Jones’s house. I don’t see what’s wrong with it.”, “Well, Mom, Dad, I told him, You can’t go.” And it really has to be that John did that a lot with our in-laws, because they  wanted to play their little game of “Let’s see if we can mess with this.” And it was okay, it worked out well. But a good parent will do his best to support his son and daughter. And if they cross over the line, it’s okay to say “You know, you look over the line here.”

John Lowen  

I think it really has to do with a real understanding of the Divine Principle, because there’s the experience that our generation had in the movement. In the beginning, we were not in the roles of sons and daughters of God, who received The Blessing. We were soldiers on a battlefield. Soldiers are servants. They do whatever the king tells them to do. We got to look at the ultimate source. Why did God create God created through the origin, division, union. Why?” So that man and woman can connect with God divine. From God’s point of view, just like all parents want their children to be better than them and pass everything on to them. When we represent the world that God divided into masculine and feminine. When we, as men and women, bring it back together, then God says “You’re the same as me, you’re more powerful than me.”  The center of the cosmos is when men and women become one. If you don’t understand your authority in terms of the potential of your blessing, you’re never going to be, and you can’t help someone if you never got the victory yourself. Just like when the chosen people left Egypt, in bondage to get to the promised land, they left maybe 600,000. But two of the original people actually made it into the promised land. So very few people, the promised land for us is being aware of the power and the authority of The Blessing.  Don’t just assume that your parents have. It’s good to be respectful and grateful for your parents, but how are they going to teach you to be one if they never became one? It’s a very delicate thing. This father didn’t even let God do his thinking for him, he challenged God, but in the most respectful way. All of us as men, we got to look at our parents, and just like the Jewish priests divided the offering in half, there’s part of what our parents said that we want to take and be grateful for.  There’s another part that you don’t want to use because it’s just the pain and the unfinished business that should not go into the next generation. It’s very sensitive because you don’t want to be resentful, you want to be grateful is the lens through which everything works. You have to be grateful to your parents, but even in the human body, we eat food, when something comes out the other end that the body can’t use. There’s part of our parents’ life that is in our bones. And there’s a part that we can use, it’s our responsibility to figure out what that is.

Carina  

Yes. I think it is a great point. And I feel like the relationship with your parents and how you deal with your parents will show up with your spouse as in, it’s going to have a big impact. Whenever you get married, like everything, if you have unresolved things, they’re going to get even bigger, isn’t it in the process?

John Lowen 

There’ll be exposure that it has to come up with. Sandra was far more mature, understanding what was going on in her family. I was more like a child still looking up to my parents, too. Because it was too painful for me to look at. I didn’t want to see the parts of my parents that work together. Unfortunately, when we’re in that denial mode, we have a common base with Lucifer. The root of Lucifer was denial. He couldn’t face the things that he was feeling. When I was in denial mode, guess who paid the price, I found things I didn’t like and Sandra, but they weren’t really legitimate. It was just me not knowing how to manage the discomfort that growing up. Sometimes it’s so painful because you have to deal with the loss of your parents. when I was a little kid, I looked up to my parents, they were God to me. But there’s another part of me like “Oh my God. I’m so disappointed. It is so painful.” And you’re really suffering a lot until I become mature enough and courageous enough. I have to deal with that. I don’t know, maybe that’s for another talk where we can deal with that. But you have to figure out who’s more adult in this context. And certainly, I was more than a teenager. And I could put on a good game and look good.

Carina  

 But Sandra was less confused, more clear. And until I sorted that out. Sometimes, I allowed my parents to get in the middle of our business because I was unconsciously protecting them. I didn’t want them to look bad, but they had a lot of unfinished business that didn’t belong in our world. Uncle Joe, what practical advice will you give to a husband who was in your situation?

John Lowen  

Well, there’s a quote from Jesus who said “You want to be one with God, who you can’t see. You say you love God, who you can’t see, but you hate your brother, and you expect God to love you.” So as men, we want to make it work with women who are incapable of understanding, truth be told. You can’t make it. You got to make relationships work with your brothers.  Men together, we have to create a foundation of substance where we talk about the mystery, the challenge, the frustration, of needing a woman. You can’t live with her and you can’t live without her. We’re not going to say that publicly. But because I got a victory with this woman, I can share the inside story of what it is to be a knucklehead male, and we’re born that way. You got to have men with whom you can be real with. And I think High Noon made a great step in terms of talking about “Yes, we have sexual desires that are stronger than my will and all that other stuff.” But we got a lot more going on beyond just that we can’t control our sexual organs.  Before even that occurs, we have emotions and insecurities that we’re, we have a billion-dollar advertising industry that is targeting us and exploiting all of our vulnerabilities and lying to us, telling us that denial was okay. We’ve got to find some brothers we can be real with to get the courage to deal with the power of women emotionally, and sexually.  Because women, sex is just a kind of relationship. And women love relationships, whether it’s whatever. It is a mature woman who has not been damaged by her father, or whatever. We don’t understand relationships, because they’re a little too scary for us.  With women, it’s even scarier, I think we got to find men who are willing to be real and go beyond competition. And I’m not saying, there’s two kinds of competition. One is “I beat you when I stomp you into the ground, and I kill you. Yes, I’m the winner. But now I don’t have anyone to be friends with, because I killed my brothers.” The other is “I find out what I’m really good at and I dominate because I’m expressing who I truly am.”  Nobody can be better at being John Lowen than me. If so, if I’m expressing myself, I will be the champion. But it becomes an inspiration for other people to find out who they are because you can only be king when you discover who you truly are. I think as men, we need to support each other in discovering who we are not following the rules, because being an obedient person is not going to help you deal with the scariness of dealing with a woman. You got to know who you are, and have that validated by other men,”I see. I see.” And that’s what Roberto [inaudible]…

Carina  

And it worked out.

Sandra Lowen  

As far as advice is concerned, I would just say, like I said, talk with your spouse. Look at yourself, and how you feel about your spouse and his parents. Let’s say that somebody comes from a family that is very old, prominent, and maybe they are blessed with someone that is not so well known. When they look at their family, or the family is broken, somebody got divorced, or somebody has a scandal or something like that. And now this is your spouse.  There is a tendency to feel maybe a little superior to recognize that we all have an area in which we do well. And every challenge is an opportunity. I’m often reminded in the movie, Evan Almighty little commercial here, Morgan Freeman is in the position of God and the wife comes to him just talking and realizing she’s talking to God. And she says “I don’t understand what’s happening. I asked God to make our family close. But look, all of this trouble is coming around.” And that character Morgan Freeman says to her “When I hear a prayer, let my family be close. I answered that prayer. But I answered that prayer by giving them a controversy around which they can become close.” So I’m not just going to go and now you’re close. 

John Lowen  

How can you be closed without something that without a challenge that you go through today?

Sandra Lowen  

Right. Many times, the things that we are getting upset about separating around, leaving each other for, cursing the in-laws, and we never have to take the children there again kinds of things, are things that are a challenge that is a learning curve for us or a learning platform for us to become closer than ever. And I’m sure if we went back and looked at our in-laws, I mean, we wouldn’t have even talked about my dad, and John, and how that went down because that was really exciting.  But there are just so many things that are tests for us. I build examinations, I like to call them for us. And then we pass the examination, even if we just pass with the 65, we get beyond. And we take a step forward. Maybe like in the case of my mother-in-law, we solve an issue that has been an issue for a long time. Nobody knew how to help this poor lady who had no family. Sometimes God has to bring like father says “God has to bring the firemen from outside.”So we need-laws are missing out if they don’t embrace that kind of thing. 

John Lowen  

Well, two things. One, just a Jewish reference, again, the temple was the center of Jewish life. And on the high holy days, there was a high priest who would enter into the Holy of Holies, and utter God’s name, which could only be uttered on that day. We still have a temple, but the Holy of Holies is not for the high priest. The high priest now is the couple, so the priest couldn’t bring anyone but himself. When you step into the Holy of Holies, you can’t bring any of your friends, or your teddy bears, or your report cards, or your central figures, “Who told you that we’re gonna miss you so much? You were such a great fundraiser, whatever.” And in order to step into the Holy of Holies, you have to know who you are, and men and women are different. What I would say to my brothers is, don’t waste your time trying to please a woman you can’t. Because women are the dwelling place of God, and women won’t be happy until every cry on the planet is taken care of. That would take two jobs, big of a job. My job is to receive love from this woman. But the way it’s going to be too scary because she actually has a real relationship with God. Women have a deeper relationship with God than men do. Because the God who created that masculine God, who took the initiative in the creation. That’s a plus, and this is a minus, a plus and minus come together, where plus and plus separate. We’re not going to experience the connection with God that women do. But what we do have is we can deal, we can make use of that being pushed outside and reflect on “Who am I? Because God buried a seed in the garden of my soul, it’s not out there. There’s going to be “I have to dig for it.” As men, we have to figure out who we are. Otherwise, love is going to be too scary. We think of the fear of rejection. No, we’re not running from rejection. We’re running from love because love is very scary. Because Sandra exposes that I don’t really know who I am. And I got to figure that out with my brothers. Otherwise, I’m her child. And it’s hard to make love to your mother. Right? 

Carina  

Wow, great point. We have brothers. We got to get to our brothers. We have work to do together. Not to be fearless, but to be real with our fears, and sit with our wounds and help each other heal. Instead of saying “Hi Lynn and Mark. He’s wounded, I’m not, but lonely, we’re all. It’s part of the sign to humble us. Mike Tyson, though, what an awesome boxer. He said “Men are not meant to be humble. Men are meant to be humbled.” And when we get humbled, we’re wounded. And that’s part of being a man is owning our wounds. We all want hierarchy as men. We want to be the best guy, the top dog. In the room where we’re honest about our wounding, we’re all equal. And until we experience that equality as men, we’re not ready for this love. Wow. I think we could conclude in that tone. I think it was very, a lot of information to the chest and I hope really men are watching and listening to this. But if you’re a woman, please send that out to your husband right now. Yes, definitely. It’s so true. And I’m so inspired. Thank you so much for making the time to share your wisdom.

John Lowen  

I would give my life for [inaudible]. Now that we know that we’re going to have to say goodbye and you get to say your final thing as well. You know, gratitude is the most important thing to our families. Whether the in-laws or the families we’ve come from, It’s such a blessing. And let’s keep it real, too. Whatever great things are happening in your life, if you trace it back, it comes from your family. Whatever problems you have, whatever conflicts you have, whatever unresolved issues that too, come from your family. We’re here to make our families better by digesting what our parents did that our ancestors couldn’t do. We’re not here to criticize our parents. We’re here to make our lineage better. And we’re gonna have to reject some of what our parents offered and cherish the other parts. But we do it with gratitude and love.

Sandra Lowen  

I would say that we all are gifted by God – is the greatest father-in-law, mother-in-law of all. As we love God, we can find the place to really love these other people under us who are trying to help us or don’t know how to help us or want to be a part of us. I think maybe they can give better advice. All of those things that we can just look at. If I were in God’s position and dealing with this, how to handle it and really knowing that I am bound eternally to my spouse, then how can I make this the richest, most wonderful relationship ever? Not to try to change him or go in league with my mother-in-law, or let’s get Johnny a different hairstyle. Let’s get him to do this or that. But really, to sort through what is good for him? And how do I make it work? How do I get this man to get up every morning and turn around and look at me and smile? What did I say last night, that would support that? When I talked to my mother-in-law, my father-in-law, what really remains in their heart is to see a beautiful daughter-in-law and feel secure about their son being in my care. Because that’s really what we’re doing is we are taking care of each other for the sake of our children. We take care of the children, for the state, really of their grandparents. We take care of our in-laws for the sake of God. And when they get to the spirit world, they won’t forget us. And they will always look on our family with benign hope and inspiration. Wow, I hope you are trying.

John Lowen  

I want to thank you for loving your man, because I feel the difference from Roberto when I met him and now. And for that, for my brother to become a better man, because that’s very important.

Sandra Lowen  

We’re both glowing. And my parting words are “You know how to find us.”

Carina  

Oh, sure. Yes. If anyone needs help, or support or talk with someone, Uncle John and Sandra, are amazing people to talk with. And I hope one day maybe I can share a little bit of what I have learned from them. But yes, really, really amazing. Thank you so much everyone. Listen to it,that you can reach out to us, you can reach out to me. And if you want a group of men, Uncle John was saying, you can find it in High Noon as well. Don’t forget to go to our website and find your place there. Thank you so much. See you next time. Okay, that’s about it, you.

Andrew Love  

Hello, everybody. Andrew Love here. I just wanted to add one more point. High Noon is a nonprofit organization. And we are run by donations. And although we’ve been doing okay. Thanks to the massive generosity of our founders, the Wolf, and Burgers. We want to expand Higher, and higher. We want to make a global impact. We want to reach every family, we want to change the culture. And for that to happen, we’re going to need a lot of volunteers. And a lot of staff. That’s just the reality, it takes money to travel, it takes money to do a lot of the things we do. And we want to let you be a part of this growth.  What we’ve created is a Donor’s Club, which is a $10-a-month club. And when you join, you get a T-shirt, mailed to your door, you can get some exclusive content. We also have some really good goodies for our tribe of people who are part of the donors club, that we’re going to talk about in the coming months. I just wanted to invite you to be one of these people everybody can afford $10 a month. It’s just a matter of whether it’s a priority. So if you feel High Noon has impacted you positively or your family or somebody you know, “Please consider donating.” I don’t want you to give me any money unless you really want to. But if you do want to, I encourage you to really, really donate. So $10 a month is , I don’t know, a cut a month. I don’t know how to measure it. It’s a giant hamburger and french fries a month that you can sacrifice in order to help this world become a more habitable, more enjoyable, more connected, more loving place. So please consider joining our donor’s club. It’s just $10 a month. We look forward to seeing you on the inside of our secret society for donors. Have a good day, buddy.

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