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Relating to the last episode’s topic about Human Trafficking with Patrick Erlandsson, Sammy and Andrew are back, this time tackling the issue of consent. Since the line between consent and sex are very muddy these days – especially with the influence of the Internet -it’s very important to have a more broad and profound grasp of the levels of consent and its different considerations.
In a world full of entitlements, where somebody’s else rights are being taken away, taken for granted, or being coerced, it’s necessary to have informed decisions guided by knowing where to stand and by differentiating which are the real relationships and which are not. Hence, getting someone else’s consent is not only appropriate – it’s vital.
Join us in this episode where we open our minds to a new way of thinking about consent and how it relates to sex.
- Degree of consent on the internet, specifically dark webs
- Consent on a one-to-one basis
- Different levels or interplays of consent
- What is true consent?
- How to tap into the eagerness in terms of sexuality in a personal relationship
- What is beyond consent: how and why it affects things like personal relationships
- How important (comfort) consensual real or true sex
Andrew Love: Welcome back everybody to this day here. This podcast with my man, Sam. How you doing, Sam?
Sammy Uyama: Hey!
Andrew Love: And Sam and that’s, that’s you and me. We’re here. And it’s been a long time since we’ve done one of these podcasts together.
Sammy Uyama: We did a, we were going through a separation. Temporary separation at one point. Weren’t we?
Andrew Love: Just did a bunch of other stuff together where we saw each other’s faces. But not, we didn’t record our voices.
Sammy Uyama: Right.
Andrew Love: So, today, we said it’s been a while but we’ve been growing and thinking and doing a lot. And one topic that we wanted to bring to the surface was consent. And, yeah, a lot of it stems from, like the importance of this conversation stems from when we recorded with Patrick Erlandsson talking about human trafficking. You know, what, what is consent when you have a prostitute and all this stuff? And it’s really, I think important because most people don’t deeply consider consent. They just feel like he said entitled. A lot of people feel entitled to somebody else’s sex. So, we wanted to get into it. Not as, you know, we never want to appear like we are, you know, laying down the law telling you what’s right or wrong. But we just want to help you make informed decisions. Right? Right, Sammy? I don’t know. Maybe, Sam is an authoritarian. He’s my boss. So, yeah.
Sammy Uyama: It comes. I leave to tend to not be but it does come out once in a while. It’s like when you grow up with British and Japanese. Very imperialistic backgrounds. It comes out every now and then.
Andrew Love: I remember, you censoring uncle David’s talks before. And he was like, there are a couple of times when he likes, he took out slides and he was giving the presentation is like, “Sammy”.
Sammy Uyama: I always try to talk to him about it prior. Anyway, anyway. Yeah, especially yeah. We don’t want, this topic, we don’t want to come off as. Hey, this is how it needs to be. And you know, this is what’s, what’s so, what’s up with this? It’s a topic that a lot of people have talked about. A lot of people, put a lot of thought into more than us, even. I mean, it’s like, it’s really a big topic. We’re just kind of taking our stab at it, aren’t we?
Andrew Love: Get into the legalistic realm. We want to talk about the artistic realm. They’re like, what is, what is the optimal way to navigate consent? Because if you play your chips the wrong way, you could hurt somebody.
Sammy Uyama: Well, yeah. Especially cause of the word consent. It’s, it is approached in a very legalistic way. Like, very the technicalities of it, right? And then like, as long as you’re, in, on this side of the line, everything’s fine. And if you’re, if you cross that, then you’re in trouble. But that’s like, that’s missing the point. Exactly, I’m saying is like the connection between people. And then like what, what are people left with after an experience? Besides, just like, everything that led up to it. That doesn’t really matter aren’t, aren’t, isn’t it?
Andrew Love: It’s a good point that if you’re just living by the laws of the land because the laws are there. Then you don’t, you don’t really get it. They’re there for a reason. So, if you understand the reason that things are there. And sometimes, you need to challenge things, like I, I’ve jaywalked Sammy. I’m just gonna, I’m just gonna put it out there. I’ve jaywalked. Because sometimes, it doesn’t make sense to walk a mile when it’s an empty street, you know, to get to another traffic light. Sometimes, I’ll just, I’ll just jaywalk. And I’ll, I’ll do it and I’ll walk slowly. So.
Sammy Uyama: I can do you one better. I, I pee outside whenever the opportunity arises.
Andrew Love: Well, you live in the city.
Sammy Uyama: Well, that’s exactly my point. You know, they are not a lot of opportunities.
Andrew Love: Oh, wow. Cool. So, FBI or what does the Korean government have an FBI? The KBI.
Sammy Uyama: Oh, wow. I have no idea actually.
Andrew Love: Well, you will soon when they come knocking on the door for the serial pee guy.
Sammy Uyama: I guess, they, they’ve been doing a good job. If secrecy is what they’re supposed to be doing.
Andrew Love: Yeah, that’s true. Shouldn’t announce your secret organization. So, let’s get into it. Because to me, there are two separate conversations and it’s good to talk about kind of both sides of this. One is the degrees of consent and then, the second half is what is beyond consent. What is, what is like the next level beyond the past? Like, like better than consent? First, let’s get into consent itself. Because of this, there’s a lot of fuzziness. The internet is really the wild west. Still. There’s, you can get into trouble, you know. But then, there’s the dark web. And where there’s no, there are absolutely no laws. But on the web, you know, consent is very interesting because I was just thinking like, when you watch porn, even if it was consensual at the time. Which please understand that in many, many, many, many cases, and you can listen to the Patrick Erlandsson episode about human trafficking if you’d like more information. But in many cases, one of the people, if not both, involved, or however many people are in the porn scenario, are not there fully willingly. Okay? So, you’re already in muddy waters in terms of consent because that person might have been drugged. They might have been, you know, coerced or whatever into making that video in the first place. But even if it was consensual, they didn’t necessarily consent that you watch them, right? They just, because it’s out on the internet, it doesn’t mean that somebody wants you in particular to watch it. That’s one sticking point that I just was thinking about is like, consent is really like a one to one basis. Right? In the sense.
Sammy Uyama: Woah. Hold on. Helped me clarify that a little bit. So, I kind of get the idea of it. But like, what about, I’m sure many people who want to argue that the first thing you can. Okay yeah, so yeah, there’s people that the act itself. They’re not necessarily of sound mind consenting. But then, there, there are people who are, right? They’re like, that’s their occupation. So, they’re doing it specifically with the intention of. They want as many people as possible to watch their stuff. And they want to make a lot of money, become famous. Or so, what, how does what you’re saying tie into like that kind of motivation for a porn star?
Andrew Love: Yeah. So, first of all, when somebody is, it says they have an absolutely clear mind about the decision. And there, you know, very proud about their porn and all that stuff. It’s while they are making the stuff, that’s when they usually take the strong sense. And then, when they’re removed from that world, from the porn world. From producing this kind of content, and are, and leave for whatever reason. They retire or they escape or whatever. They, the majority of them say a completely different story. You know, even Jenna Jamison, I haven’t read her autobiography, which is a really famous porn star. She has, she has, she has very different things to say about porn than when she was in it when she was making it. Right? So, there’s that element of it. Is like, is this person, just kind of justifying? And that, yeah, if it’s completely consensual on their end, and they’re proud of it. And then, did you pay for it? That’s one thing because most people just watch bootleg porn, right? And so in a sense, you’re stealing from them. But even if you do pay for it. That’s, that’s a tricky one. You’re right. You’re right. That’s a tricky one. Mentally, it’s fully consensual. So then, it’s fully okay.
Sammy Uyama: We’re just, we’ve just talked ourselves out of our entire business. We have no justification for existing anymore.
Andrew Love: Well, no. On a one to one basis, there’s, there’s, then, then consent in terms of this argument. Consent is paying money. But again, if you listen to what Patrick Erlandsson says, it’s very insightful and he really blew my mind in terms of like money. If you ask a prostitute, whether, you know who’s asking, say a $100 to do a sexual favor for you. Whether they would just like the hundred dollars and for you to walk away or for you to do the, perform the sex act on them with $100, they would just prefer the money. Right? They don’t want you. They want your money. Right? So, it’s not really consenting to enjoy sex. It’s consenting to let you take something from them for a certain amount of money. And there’s a lot that goes into that. But that’s, that’s interesting, too. Like, again, this is all food for thought. And we’re trying to talk about this in a sincere way, right? Like I, I probably could have gotten more legalistic on you and tried to fight your point, but in a sense, it is consensual. But again, if you’re a deeper person who’s looking to find healthy sexuality, then there’s that element as well. That this person doesn’t care about you. It’s commodifying the act of sex. And so even though it’s transactional monetarily, okay, I give you money, you give me some sort of sexy stuff. There’s, there’s more at play than just you’re not just a body with money. You’re a human being that has a soul. So, is that transaction consensual? Spiritually? Mentally? Emotionally? There are more elements, okay, to that. That’s all I’m gonna say. That’s all I’m gonna say. Because otherwise it sounds like I’m justifying, but I’m just trying to be sincere that even, even consent in terms of money is not so clear cut. Right? Given the information I just said.
Sammy Uyama: Yeah. I think maybe the, for me, the way this makes the most sense is to take a step back from the topic of consent and what would be the other end of the spectrum of consent. And, and not in by force. Not that’s, not that direction. I mean, but like the implication, consent is like kind of caving in. It’s like fine. Right? So, the opposite of that, it would be like eagerness. That’s the word that comes to mind for me. Right? And like what, what is the like, how can we, how can we tap into like eagerness in terms of sexuality?
Andrew Love: Yeah. We’ll get there. Let’s get there.
Sammy Uyama: That’s like what we really want, right? Because like, the consent is like the bottom of the barrel. That’s just like the minimum requirement that you don’t get in trouble and go to jail, basically.
Andrew Love: Yeah. Yeah, again, it’s, it’s, it’s fairly transactional, right? But before we get into that. Because that’s kind of like the polar opposite end of the spectrum. Like the degrees consent to are that need to be factored in. Because this is happening in the world where age, age, age is coming into play whether a child can consent. And you know, what if somebody’s under the influence of something? It makes their ability to consent in a lucid fashion. They are consenting without their full faculties, which is not full consent. It’s like partial consent, right? Because you don’t have access to your reason, your logic, your morality, your hopes, and your dreams when you’re all drugged up, or when you’re under the influence of something, right? So there’s that too. And when people say, “Oh no, not my porn.” I don’t watch people who are being drugged up. Is like, okay. Prove it. Show me. There’s no verification system to say that this woman wasn’t drugged up. That she, she wasn’t being coerced. And the fact is that so many of them are. So many people are trapped. What Patrick was saying, again to refer to him is like, not everybody who is in porn has been trafficked. But everybody who has been trafficked has also had porn made of them. So, given the fact that there are hundreds of millions of people every year being trafficked. That means that the likelihood that you’re watching somebody act in a way against their will without their consent is very high. Especially the number of hours that people watch porn. When they watch it, they’re not watching one image a year. They’re watching thousands. So it’s almost mathematically impossible that you’re not watching. That you’re avoiding, you know, watching somebody who’s not consenting to that video made. Out of like, who’s sober-minded, and who’s, who’s fully able to make that decision.
Sammy Uyama: So, right. So that’s one level of consent is just the mental capacity, right? Having your factualties about you. And which is, that’s a, with porn, that’s a very relevant factor. But also in a relationship that, that always comes up to. That’s like the classic consent argument was like, were they sober? Were they intoxicated? Alright. And if you’re. Right? And I can’t actually, you know, I’ve actually never had an experience of being feeling completely out of my capabilities. I like never been intoxicated or really psychedelically drugged up or anything. You know, I don’t know how different is someone. You know, it’s, I hear about it but I don’t actually personally experience it. Like how different someone is in that situation. Though what, so, what are other kinds of levels of consent? And the transaction one you mentioned. That, there’s still a sticking point with that for me. You made the analogy of like the hundred dollars. Like would they just take the money or would they rather due to service? And is one level. So, um, but that’s, I also couldn’t that same argument be made for any occupation. Like a server at a restaurant? And like, would they rather serve you food or they rather just take the tip? You know, and not do anything? So like how does. Yeah. Like.
Andrew Love: You’re not having sex with your …
Sammy Uyama: Okay, right? So, okay so, it’s not, it’s not the, it’s not the transaction itself. But it’s like the scale of it. Which is like when dealing with something as magnitude, has the magnitude of sex. It’s just, it puts on a different level than just like any other kind of job.
Andrew Love: Well, yeah. I mean, because to us sex is a meaningful act that, that connects with your hopes and your dreams. Your individuality, your connection to God, your connection to self, your connection to your potential. And not only that, you know, just, I just want to touch on it. I would like to do an entire episode on this, but I think I can’t. I think a woman needs to. But I do believe that a vagina is the microcosm of the universe. Because of how sensitive it is. And how, I don’t know if you’re a young single man listening to this if you know. But like the balance of a woman’s vaginal health is very sensitive. Like they can get infected, you know, yeast infections, all sorts of stuff. Because there’s so much going on there. There’s so much going on there. And if you put that out of balance, it puts the whole woman’s life out of balance. So, just in that. In a very physiological. That, the health of that person. The more sex they have, the more likely they are to be unhealthy in a physical way. Let alone spiritually, emotionally and all that stuff, right? So, she’s risking her physical health much more in the sex industry. You’re getting sick, right? And in a very profound way then she is being a waitress, right? I would say, there’s, it’s just a lot more. It’s a lot higher risk. And also, even if somebody is spiritual, they could agree that we have brains and minds. And there’s a definite mental aspect to it. And there’s a psychological impact of having sex with somebody. So, there’s that.
Sammy Uyama: Yeah. I think I mean, people try to argue against that, right? Try to separate. Like, tried sex is just an activity and has no significance to it. But I think every study, that’s every legitimate study that’s been done to try to measure this is always concluded the opposite. It’s like an inevitable emotional experience between people engaged in sex.
Andrew Love: Yeah. I mean, I don’t think there’s any disagreement in any field. Scientific, psychological. That detachment from reality leads to happiness. There’s no, there’s like the opposite is true. That detachment leads to misery. So, if we detached connection from sexuality, it will not lead us towards happiness. Like that’s, the more connected we are to other people, to ourselves to meaning, the happier we are. The more detached we are, the more misery we experience. There’s no, there’s no, there’s no debate there. But it’s just, there’s a lot of mental gymnastics happening in certain fields to justify, you know, this kind of porn. Porn mentality. But the other, we were kind of heading in the direction of what are the other interplays. So there’s, there’s, you know, your mental ability to consent. But then there’s also, the power play. The power dynamic of consent. And one name that came up, you know, while we were preparing to get a life was like somebody like Monica Lewinsky. Because for some people, that whole case was really weird that she performed oral sex on him and then later, took him to court. Right? And a lot of people were like, “What a hypocrite. She’s such a hypocrite.” She did it. It was consensual. She’s an adult, right? But the fact is that he was the most powerful man, probably in the universe at that time, the physical man. He was the president of the most powerful country, especially in the 90s. The states in America had unprecedented access to power. And he was used the captain of that ship. And so what she argued was that he was asserting himself and his power to kind of force her, in a way psychologically or whatever, to perform the sex. He didn’t physically force her but he used that power card.
Sammy Uyama: Yeah. That, that power play version of consent. It’s very relevant. It happens a lot, right? With, in the workplace. That’s like the common kind of, you know, a sticky situation that people get stuck in. Or like in a school environment, like older students with younger students or teachers with faculty, with students.
Andrew Love: Yeah. It muddies the waters because even if yes comes out of your mouth, did yes come from your heart? Did yes come from your true, truest self? Right? And, and that’s again. It’s not so clear cut because like why, why, how did you not stand up for yourself? Well, it’s not so simple, right? But at the same time, it’s not just, you can’t just excuse. Well, he, you know, like, it’s money. Even as I say this, I feel like I’m just going to get. There’s only one place to get in trouble if I continue speaking but.
Sammy Uyama: For sure. And I hope our disclaimer, in the beginning, can appease us. We’re doing our best, right? But, uh, we do not on any, any, in any, meaner form speak on behalf of womankind. Right?
Andrew Love: Womankind or, you know, Bill Clinton.
Sammy Uyama: Yeah, yeah. But just see. It’s work complex, it’s more subtle, right? It’s like intoxication. You know, you can measure that, right? But this is something, it’s not measurable. And it does go more in the direction was talking about earlier. The direction of like, of eagerness being the, like the actual code cycle more than just consent, right? Because when we’re this, what we’re talking about, is like giving in. That applies to way more situations like, even, in an in a relationship even. Yeah. Where, where, like, how often is it? One side is just appeasing the other. And doing something that they’re not into? Or like they’re not up for or even uncomfortable with? Right? But they’re just getting this constant barrage of pleading or pressure or whatever it is that has some cave. Right? And this is, that very. Yeah. Very different than like, really throwing yourself into something and being really eager for it.
Andrew Love: Absolutely. And so that yeah, this is the other side of the conversation. So the first side is kind of like the degrees of consent. And you can go into the micro details of that and start looking at that. And again, it’s all very legalistic. And okay, but you said yes. So you know, and then there’s all these. But the point is, you, as people who listen to this podcast, unless you’re a troll. You’re a thoughtful person who just wants win-win situations for everybody in this world. You don’t want anybody to lose, right? And so your sex absolutely should fit into that dynamic. Into that paradigm of win-win, right? And so, win-win, win-win, everybody should win from your sex. Because your sex should be so enjoyable for you and your spouse, for the person that you’ve committed to. That the children, that your neighbors, that you’re co-workers. Everybody benefits because it’s feeding every aspect of view. Every facet of you. Because when you made love, your mind said yes. Because you’re like, “Yes, because I love you”. Your heart said yes, “Yes, because I love you”. Your spirit said yes and then your body said yes. And then, that’s true consent. Is like not, yeah, like not acquiescing. But, and not relenting. And not, not kind of being subjugated by another person through whatever means. But to fully offer yourself because that’s what you want to do. To have two people doing that. That’s a real sexuality. And nobody would, would, unless you’re a psychopath. Only a psychopath would admit. Yeah, I like it when people resist or when they say no, right? But everybody else wants to be loved fully by another person. Yeah. Like. I don’t think we can disagree on that. So, you would want somebody with every cell of their body. With every fiber of their being to want every fiber of your being. Right? So, so any, any modicum of resistance. Any, any remote of amount, of them not wanting to should be an indication that the timings not right. The setting is not right. And to, to factor that in. And if not, it’s kind of like you’re steamrolling them. And then, even if they agree to do it, you’re going to, it’s like a deficit, you’re creating a deficit in your relationship.
Sammy Uyama: And I think that that gives better context for like, as an individual ourselves in a relationship what we can strive for. It’s like, I don’t want like as a guy, I don’t want my wife to just consent and just say yes, to say yes. You know, I want her to like throw herself at me. And like, when I walk in the door, it’s like, my pants already off. Yeah, it’s like, that sounds way better. Just like two people were hungry for each other. Right? And, and then, then the question becomes like, how do I get that? Right? It allows us to be more proactive, rather than just complaining. Like, “Oh, I just I always have to beg”. You know, and I’ve had those, that, those frustrations sometimes. To like, hate the feeling that like, “Damn it, do I have to, like, beg my wife for sex?” Right? It’s like, I’m like trying to give the hints and the subtle clues. And, and I don’t want to just straight out be like, “Please honey, can we have sex?” You know, I will wonder like. And uh. And so, you know, rather than just being that, that feeling that frustration. You know, what we can do about is we can think like, what am I doing to feed that part of my spouse? And nurse that in her. And like, have her fall in love with me again and again and again. What am I doing to romance her? And likewise, for the, on both sides, the husband and the wife. Right? That it gives, lets us live in a different world about how we relate with the sexual aspect of our, of our marriage.
Andrew Love: Absolutely. And you can see. Like I can see why people have affairs, right? I cannot, it’s not like. It’s a mystery, right? But it’s when you go home and then you know, both, both people are just kind of like meh or even worse you’re fighting. But there’s just not that desire. That desire doesn’t that, that desire to rip each other’s clothes off doesn’t exist. And then, you find somebody else who kind of gives you that look. That gives you that energy that they want you. It’s not that sex is really what people want. It’s people who want to be wanted, right? They want to be wanted. And that’s why you know, to be honest, all porn is about. If you look at it, the majority of porn is men subjugating women and women liking it. That’s why it messes up a lot of people. Because it’s all about, the men kind of doing something to denigrate the woman and the woman liking it. But what really we want is not to. I mean, as men I can speak on behalf of men. Is not when you kind of unravel that and unpack that and take some time to realize how chauvinistic and kind of toxic porn is. And then you start building a healthy relationship with sexuality. You realize that the heart of all that porn. Porn is like an ugly expression of the sincere desire to want to be wanted. That’s it. That’s all we want in life is we want to be wanted, by one, really at most you want. Like I said, we want one person to want to give every fiber of their being to us. And to want every fiber of our being. Like, to just like can’t like, devour each other. That’s what you want. That’s what we all want. But it’s not easy. Right, Sammy? Like yeah, it’s flowery and nice to talk about. But it’s not an easy standard to maintain. Let’s just say that.
Sammy Uyama: Yeah. That’s the rubber and the road where they’re meeting. It’s like the work. And it is work, right? It’s like and so when you know when you’re at that pit. It’s a crossroads for many people. It’s like, you know, how do I want to, how-to, by what’s the paradigm on having this area? And many people, they go down the way of like. They always, always desiring that but not willing to put in the work. So that’s why they’re so lured by things like porn because it’s like, instantly gives you that. But it’s not, there’s no substance to it, right? longevity. And then the opposite direction is like the resignation of, you know, it’s impossible and every relationship is a transaction. Right? And everyone, at the end of the day, everyone’s looking out for themselves. Right? And like two people in a marriage. They’re just because it’s what you know, it’s mutually beneficial for the time period. And that people stay guarded, right? They hold on to that part of themselves because they can never, they don’t believe it’s actually possible. Right? To actually have that kind of like, whole open-wide unreserved giving of yourself to another person someone doing that for you. Right? And, yeah, and so and so. Yeah. They keep that kind of like individualism. Right?
Andrew Love: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, everything becomes very conditional. You know, it’s like, well, I did this for you, why wouldn’t you do this for me? And that’s inherent, you know, losing transaction. I’m telling you, them. I can see the more that a couple has sex where there’s not full enthusiasm on all levels, then there becomes a deficit in some aspect of their marriage. It’s like you’re giving something up in order to then have sex. But you’re alienating either some part of yourself or them, the other person. They’re becoming more strange from the person that they would like to be or vice versa, depending on, who’s on, who’s not fully on board. Right? So more specifically, like I know that the more that, say a woman just says acquiesces and says “Okay, yeah, we’re gonna have sex, whatever.” And then, she does. Just to satisfy the men but she’s not into it. The more that she starts to associate sex with boredom and kind of like, she just becomes detached. And again, detachment is the enemy of intimacy. So it’s…
Sammy Uyama: Even that exact scenario is also. Yeah, even the man in that situation, that scenario would also sense that. Right? And that’s, even the man in that situation would eventually start to drift away from it. Because exactly like you said, that’s not really about the sex. It’s the experience of being desired. Right? And, and, you know, that’s like a classic case of like the woman, you know. The hundreds of years ago, hundreds of years ago, right. It was like the woman’s duty, right? Was to be the homemaker and then to provide sex for their spouse. Right? And some people, some people were, you know, this is like, the more the aristocratic view of marriage, right? And then the, even some, and so some of these women were they were trained just to be acquiescence just to please their, their Lord husband, right? The count of who was a Duke, whoever it is, right? And it’s so common for like these men would have multiple mistresses, right? Because you know, they would go to their, their go, their wife, right? And the wife would do everything that the husband asked for. As in. But as always, as a duty. And, and you know the man always, could always sense that. And then, when I was not. And yeah, the sex at the moment. Sex is enjoyable, right? But, by we always. It’s an empty feeling, right? Because what’s missing is that real feeling of passionate desire, right? And you can’t fake that.
Andrew Love: Yeah, exactly. The whole point of it is to when it’s true sex, then it’s it brings you closer together. You feel closer to that person on every level. You feel like I know you better. I trust you more. I do anything for you. You know, I, I can see with my wife and I like when we have real sex. I touch her more after. Like the next day, I’ll reach out for her hand more. I’ll compliment her more. Everything is like the opposite. The stuff that I should be doing is like what I do naturally more because I just feel closer to her. I feel like we are more one. We’re more symbiotic, you know? Whereas, I’ve observed like when we’ve had bad sex. When we’ve had sex of compromise of some variety, I have a more negative feeling towards her. I can clearly see that, right? And I would say that’s pretty common for most people of you. Look at yourself. The more porn you watch. When you go through a porn binge, you don’t feel better about yourself and more hopeful. You feel more frustrated and angry. Right? And I would say the same would be true if you have any type of negative sexual experience that’s not two people who are fully into each other and committed. You know, like having, real, real sex. True sex. People who experienced that leaves you in a weird state. It’s not fulfilling on a deep level. So yes, today we just really wanted to present this idea. Mainly because we want you to make informed decisions as much as possible when you do reach for pornography. That you’re not just resisting a natural urge to want to connect. But that, you stop seeking that desire to take sex and rather understand that you really just want to be wanted. And that, that’s a really good thing but there are many more positive ways of, of going after that. And also if you are married, to like to consider sex and like sacrificing. This happens, you know, very recently for me that I sacrificed asking my wife for a favor sexually. She’s very loving to me. And so she, you know, I could almost guarantee I was gonna get lucky. You know, as they say, but I was like, “No, I don’t want..”
Sammy Uyama: Is that a euphemism? For something she’s loving.
Andrew Love: Well, she is. I mean, she’s just a wonderful person. But I was like, No, I don’t want it this way. I want something true where it’s time, the right place where she can be fully present. And I just, as like, I really I just gripped it and ripped it. I was just like, “No way man, I’m not gonna.” And I didn’t, I didn’t bring it up. And then a couple like it was like the next day or two days later, all, all the stars aligned. And it was a fantastic experience for both of us because we were in the space to both enjoy it. And I’m not, I wouldn’t’, I don’t think I would be a bad person if I had done that. But I, it definitely wouldn’t have been the ultimate of what true sex is. Had I, had I asked her to kind of sacrifice her comfort just to satisfy me. And instead of us both, kind of getting on a rocket ship and going to the stratosphere together. Yeah, like that’s far.
Sammy Uyama: Yeah, and uh, it’s, and it’s not. In their cycle. Oh, by the way, grip and rip it has a very specific meaning. But it’s cyclical, right? It’s like both of us have infant children. Right? And, and sometimes it’s just like the stage of life that you’re in, right? It’s like you’re not, it’s, you’re not able to just have that perfect opportunity where the environments perfect. Like sometimes, you just gotta, you bang it out with while breastfeeding one of them, you know. Right? Or like a kid strapped to your back, you know. And I’m sure that, there are lots of situations where the wife would be like, this is not, this is not what I would choose. Right? But there’s that desire and willingness that’s underlying it, just to take care of one another, invest in one another. And, and in the end, it’s like a really enjoyable experience.
Andrew Love: Yeah, yeah, exactly. I think, yeah, that’s a good point. And I guess, it’s a good point to kind of leave on that. I wouldn’t suggest that because I know people are in different situations. And sometimes people have health issues and they’re not able to really, you know, perform up to their desired capabilities in terms of sex, right? But that doesn’t mean that you can’t satisfy the other person, still, with your mind, body, and heart. It’s like that willingness to want that other person doesn’t have to be limited by your, by your present situation. You know what I mean? Like, it doesn’t mean that…
Sammy Uyama: And it is not limited by sex, right? I mean, exactly what you said, right?
Andrew Love: Yeah, even, it’s all facets of life. But we’re, we’re talking about sex because consent and sex are very muddy waters these days. More than ever, especially with the internet. And we just wanted to kind of bring up these topics to help you set, you know on them. And think about them and pray about them, meditate on them. And then, try to figure out what is the, what is, what is really the best-case scenario for sex with, with you? And if it’s not fully consensual between. Like last time, I was with my wife. It was, is really like God, God was, I felt God fully present there because it’s just such a joy. Because it was like we were all in and God was like, “I’m in to. Can I, can I get like. I’m here. Hey! hey guys.” So, it’s just like, anything short of that. You know just look at it and say how can we do better all the time? And that’s, then that’s the best way to live life. Is like how can I improve? How can I enjoy where I’m at but also improve and constantly be more of the good stuff and less of the fake stuff?
Sammy Uyama: Well put. Okay. We’ll leave that with you guys. We hope. Yeah. Context. It’s always what we want to give people. Innocence in general, like the gradients, levels of consent, and the different considerations for it. But I understand, the purpose of understanding that is like, being able to compare those two. What is really the exciting thing to strive for? Right, there’s something better than you can aim for than just consent. As really, you should look at that as the minimum requirement. Right? But like enthusiasm, that’s really what to shoot for in terms of sex. And so, we hope. Yeah, that’s really what we want to leave you guys with. And we hope you open your minds to a new way of thinking about sex.
Andrew Love: Yeah, thank you all for listening. Again, if you have anything that you’ve been thinking about on this topic. Please let us know. Inform us. We’re always looking to be educated more ourselves. Also, if you need anything at all, remember that we’re just an email away. And then you can get our phone numbers. And then, we can, we’re just a call away or which, the FaceTime away or whatever the case may be. So, there’s an open line here for our staff, which you can see on our high noon website. High noon.org.
Sammy Uyama: We will, we will never ever ever be a tik-tok away. Never.
Andrew Love: Yeah, I was tempted but no I’m staying away from this. Anyway, yes. Thank you for listening and we’ll talk to you soon.
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