Ep. 38 - Podcast Thumbnail

#38 – Fight The New Drug’s Podcast | Garrett Jonsson

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Ep. 40 - Podcast Thumbnail

 

Andrew is joined by Garett Jonsson, who is a podcast host, public speaker, and one of the fighters for Fight the New Drug, a Utah-based anti-pornography nonprofit organization. Garett once had a behavioral addiction to pornography.

Pornography is generally a secret obsession for most people. However, be inspired by this episode as Garett talks openly about his addiction to pornography and how it affected his life, his first exposure to it, and how he overcomes the compulsion by being involved with different causes such as 30 and 30 and Coast to Coast in Chains where he biked 3,800 miles across the United States. These projects led him to the organization that helped pull him away from the dark side of his addiction.

Listen more to this conversation and be enlightened by the destructive nature of pornography and how you can positively overcome it through the help of a supportive community that will harness and nurture your willpower and drive to change.

  • Inception of pornography to his life
  • Progression of pornography in his early years
  • Factors that escalated the frequency of his consumption of pornography
  • Consciousness towards pornography
  • How he realized and opened his eyes towards pornography: Arrogance, Deceit, and Resentment
  • Having courage to open up up about his problem to someone
  • What he and his wife did to overcome the problem
  • Raising awareness by being involved in various projects: 30 and 30 and Coast to Coast in Chains

Episode Transcript:

Andrew Love: Alright guys, welcome to the podcast. We have a real person here. Which is why I’m smiling because normally it’s Sammy or I. Or you know, a bunch of people that we know better than, than this. But I’m just meeting him for the first time. And he’s really cool guy. So, I’m gonna try to keep my stuff together here. His name is Garrett Jonsson. And  he has a very confusing spelling of his name. And there’s like probably a million variations that you could you know attempt. But, I contacted him because I knew of him from before. From watching Fight the New Drug videos about him crossing the country in a very dramatic fashion on a bicycle with chains. And we can get into that. But then, he was tasked with their podcast. Which is you know, it’s so cool because it’s, Fight the New Drug is so good at mainstreaming this, this, this conversation about pornography. And they’re even getting celebrities into the conversation. It’s so cool. Getting access to some really important figures. And he’s, he’s, he’s the head honcho. He’s the FA of the whole thing. No, not really. But he kind of is. He’s the voice of it. Anyway. He’s being humble. You can’t see it. But he’s being humble right now. And he’s out in Utah, where, we’re. And I’m in the jungle still, everybody. But the reason I really wanted to get him on is because when you see somebody standing up against the tide, and doing it with dignity. And you got a pay note. And when they’re consistent, then you really got to take notes. And I’ve been, I’ve been watching this guy for a while. And I was surprised to, to see that he was accessible and that I could get him on this podcast. So, we’re gonna dig deep into himself and we’re gonna get into his story. And also, what he’s been up to. Because, like always, Fight the New Drug is kicking up some really good sand. And this podcast is a great asset. And so, please. With that’s kind of a long intro, but you deserve it. So, let’s welcome, Garrett.

Garrett Jonsson: Well, thanks for the intro. I just want to say, right off the bat, that I’m definitely not the head honcho. And, the reason why I say that is because it’s just the truth. I’m just, I’m just, uh, you know, I do host the podcast to Fight the New Drug. And so, I’m one of the fighters. But we have over 5 million fighters around the world. And, we have on our team of Fight the New Drug. We have, you know, 12 employees that work with Fight the New Drug. And everything we do, really, I look at it as a team effort. Even though, we kind of each have a roles. And, but I just, I think if I were to put out a podcast personally, there would probably be like 12 downloads. And two of them would be from my parents. You know, so.

Andrew Love: Yeah. They be criticizing you the whole time. “I didn’t like how you interview that person.”

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah. So, no. I am, I just wanted to clarify that. But also, we just want to, we, at Fight  the New Drugs. We want to thank you for the opportunity to be on the podcast. So, yeah. We’re excited to be here today.

Andrew Love: Yeah. No. I hear you, I hear you. We are set. You know. High Noon is just a small group of core staff and then a crapload of volunteers around the world. And, b,ut it’s just because, you know, we’re the face, you know, that people see a lot. So, you’re the voice that people hear a lot. That, you know, is important, because, you know, you’re the voice of many. But, so, I just want to acknowledge that. Yeah, I think we’re, we’re doing this Canadian chess game where we’re out liking each other.

Garrett Jonsson: I love Canada, by the way. You’re from Canada? You’re from Toronto?

Andrew Love: Yeah. I mean, Utah’s like a mini Canada. It’s like a satellite Canada. Come on. Anyways, so, you’re a cool dude. I’m a cool dude. And we’re a couple of bros, right? With our own stories. Everybody in our, you know, who listens to our podcast definitely knows Sammy’s and my story. But I’d love to get to know your story. And why this whole topic of pornography matters to you, right? Um, and get into, you know, when you were first exposed. Let’s start at the beginning of your journey with, with pornography. And then, we’ll go in chronological order. So, how were you exposed to porn? What was the scenario?

Garrett Jonsson: It’s interesting because when I did a video with Fight the New Drug, maybe five years ago. I said in the video that my first time exposure was at age nine. But now, it was back in 2016 when that, when I said that. Fast forward to 2020. And I now know that my first exposure was around the age of five. And so, it was weird thing that I, I’m trying to still understand why I repressed those memories. I don’t know exactly why. I’ve never really attended. I’ve only attended one true therapy session in my life. And so, I’ve never dug at that. Maybe, like I should have or should. But yeah, so the first time exposure was around the age of five. I, to give some context, I was born in 1986. First time exposure around the age of five. And the exposures after that.

Andrew Love: I’m sorry. We’re talking about 1989, 1990. So, we’re talking magazines or…

Garrett Jonsson: My first exposure was through television. Yeah. And I saw with a friend. And I remember that, that friend’s parents didn’t want them to play with me anymore. And my parents told me that. And I never really got an explanation as to why. But we were best friends. And so, we kind of had to go our separate ways. Which was kind of a weird. I’m still trying to figure it out and I don’t know all the details. And I’ve never actually brought this up to my parents or to this best friend that I, that I had. That I can still, I still consider a friend today. But yeah, I don’t know if that had something to do with it. But anyway, so maybe that’s why I repressed it. Because it was emotional time for me to lose my best friend at the time. And I wonder if I made that connection somehow. But yeah, so, um, age, very young. First time exposure. And I remember feeling confused. When on my first time exposure. If I had to put it to one word, it’d be confusion. I didn’t exactly know if I enjoyed it or not. It was more just like it was very, it was my first time you know, experiencing that. So, confusion is a good way to explain that. And then, my exposure happened gradually. Maybe two years later, I saw pornography again. My cousin brought a Playboy magazine over. And I remember sneaking that into the bathroom to look at that. And then, I remember through elementary and like second, third, fourth, fifth grade. You know, there was various times where I would be exposed to it or seek it out. But, it wasn’t very frequent at all. But, I do remember being super stoked when I was able to see it. You know, after that first time. The first time was confusion. But I remember with the, my cousin. And then, I played sports growing up. And with my football buddies, there were several times when I sought it out. Or I was showed pornography. And I was stoked about it.

Andrew Love: Yeah, yeah. No, I hear that. That’s very common, right? Yeah, the best friend. That’s. Wow. Um, a lot. A lot there. So, when you remembered back initially, back in 2016. Like you didn’t remember the instance of when you were five. Like that whole thing was foggy. And then, you just regained access to it later.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah. Well, you know, it’s interesting. I read a book called The Body Keeps The Score. So, between 2016 and now, I’ve read that book, The Body Keeps She score. And that talks about how your body keeps the score. Everything that happens to you and traumas that you have in your life. Your body holds on to that. And your body’s changed. It keeps the score. And so, yeah, I think that reading that book. I think helped me remember. Which is kind of a weird thing. Because I think, as I was reading, that’s when I first, that’s when I realized. Like, actually it was, it was way younger than nine years old. So, yeah. And my, my pornography consumption progressed pretty gradually. Very, very gradually, actually. Where it was something that, like I mentioned, the instances already, that I’ve mentioned. But then going forward, it was something where in high school, I would seek out pornography. And it got to the point where it would be weekly. And then, I would seek it out a couple times a week. But, I didn’t really think it was that problematic. I think, the first time that I can remember thinking that it was problematic was there was one time at age 12. When it was the first time that I saw like, pornography that included penetration. And it was a little bit aggressive. And I remember that I didn’t enjoy that aggression that was happening in that scene. And so, I remember looking back on that particular instance. That was a moment where I was like, wow, like this isn’t. I don’t enjoy this. This is not okay. That aggression. But other than that, I didn’t really see it as problematic. I think through my teens, it was all impulsive. And maybe creating a habit of some sort. But when I say impulsive, I just mean that it was I was making these decisions. I was seeking it out. Because I was stoked about it. Just like 98% of my friends were stoked about it. And we didn’t think about any potential consequences. It was just. There was no forethought. It was just here now. And so, yeah.

Andrew Love: And so, when did that creep in? Because I mean, for most people, that’s the continuim of their entire sexual existence. Is like, “Yeah. What’s the big deal.” Right? And then. But there’s some sort of interruption in this pattern for you, right? So, when did that graduate from being, just a casual thing that you get stoked on to? What is this? Why don’t like it? Or what was it? Was a graduation?

Garrett Jonsson: For me, it was access. Ease of access. Privacy. And so, like in 2007, when I got the first, when I got the first my first iPhone.

Andrew Love: Okay. That was when they first came out. Well, you were the cool kid, huh?

Garrett Jonsson: I don’t know if I was a cool kid but I had an iPhone. And so the, I think for me, that’s when it started to change. Because of the ease of access. And because of the ease of privacy. That’s when it started to, the frequency increased in a very easy way. Another thing that’s interesting for me to look at is my sex education. Because I know that at Fight the New Drug, we don’t talk about sex education. We, at Fight the New Drug, we just talk about the harmful effects of pornography. But I think, when it comes to my personal account. It could be important to kind of realize where I got my education about sex and sexuality. Because where did I get it looking back? My parents did. Our great parents. They’re the salt of the earth. You know, but they didn’t have many conversations with me about, about sex or sexuality or what healthy sex is. And so, if I look at my education about sex. I think about because I played sports, I learned stuff in the locker room.

Andrew Love: Yeah.

Garrett Jonsson: I’m thinking about movies that were popular at the time. American Pie. Varsity Blues. You know, you think about like. Because technology has come so far that maybe some of your listeners might not even remember, remember this or know this. But you think about like infomercials. Like you stay up late and see infomercials about like Girls Gone Wild. And so, you’re learning about sexuality through all these different things. Another area that I learned about sexuality was through the man show. I don’t know if you remember this. But it was with Jimmy Kimmel.

Andrew Love: Yeah. Jimmy Kimmel and Adam Carolla. Who’s like a hyper conservative now. I think, they kind of went in divergent paths.

Garrett Jonsson: Right? Yeah. So, you look at the man show, and they just straight up objectify women. You know. The girls jumping on trampolines kind of thing. And so, I’m looking about all these places where I got my sex education. It’s like, there’s some problems there because all of the areas where I kind of learned about sexuality aren’t the healthiest places to learn about it.

Andrew Love: Sure. You had to piece it together on your own, right? Yes, there was no conversation happening. So, you filled that gap with whatever information was coming your way. Which is the idiots in the locker room and the idiots on the TV box, right?

Garrett Jonsson: Yep. Or Eminem. You know, music. Jay’e. All these different places. So. And then, the pornography I was consuming. So, that’s where I got my sex education. Now, going to when I got the iPhone. And.

Andrew Love: Can I just stop for one second and ask. Did, based on the absence of conversation about sex in particular. But based on the character nature of your parents and how you were raised. Did it feel like you were doing something inherently wrong or did you even question it? Did it just get past your radar entirely, like your moral radar? Or was there, there, was it sticking somewhere? Like, I probably shouldn’t be doing this, but I just don’t care that much. Or like, where were you on the kind of gradient, you know, detection level of wether, whether it was remotely wrong?

Garrett Jonsson: I think at that age, your friends have a big influence on you. Yeah. And obviously, your parents do as well. I was raised in a household where I was taught to treat women with respect. And so, I think that’s maybe one reason why at age 12, when I saw that pornography that had the aggressive scene that made me uncomfortable. I think that’s probably one reason why I was like, oh, wow, like, this is what that is, and this is what it can be. And I was like, I don’t like that. I don’t like that aggression towards women. But then, if you look at what my friends were teaching me and what I was teaching my friends. Was like this is, it’s fine. It’s okay. You watch these movies of teens in junior high in high school. And it’s like this is what part, that’s part of junior high in high school and college is this. And so I think for me, I didn’t, there was only one friend that wasn’t consuming pornography in my group.  Of one person that I knew that spoke, spoke out actively against looking at pornography. Amongst our group, just one person. Um, everyone else.

Andrew Love: How was theat recieved, by the way?

Garrett Jonsson: What was that?

Andrew Love: How was that received by the rest of your peers?

Garrett Jonsson: Oh, you know. We looked up to this kid because he was kind of the goofball. But he was also like, the smartest kid in our group. He’s gone on to be very successful. He was always getting 4.0 on his, you know. His GPA was really high. He’s getting scholarships. Academic scholarships. He’s an athlete. He’s really funny. So, we looked up to him. And we didn’t think much of it. We didn’t make fun of him for it. But we were just like, “Well, that’s you man. But, we’re gonna, we’re gonna look at it.” So, um, yeah. I don’t think, I didn’t think. I didn’t see much. l, I didn’t see a problem with pornography.

Andrew Love: Got it. Which lead you to your iPhone. And which, you know, things started spiraling and he started frequency elevated. So then, then at what point did were you like “Whoa”?

Garrett Jonsson: Can I just kind of say, maybe, subconsciously I did. Maybe subconsciously, I knew that there was something wrong with it. Because I wasn’t having open conversations with my parents about it.

Andrew Love: Yeah.

Garrett Jonsson: So, maybe, there was a subconscious feeling there of that it wasn’t okay. But, going to your question to. So, it progress once I got the ease of access. And I, I met my my wife at the time. We dated. And I didn’t talk to her about my pornography consumption. And we got married later on. And she didn’t know about my pornography consumption. As we were dating. And during the first period of marriage, I didn’t consume pornography. And I can’t say that I didn’t at all. But I remembered that there was a drastic reduction in consumption. And so, but I didn’t talk to her about previous usage or consumption. So, I go into the marriage thinking that I’ve, I’ve been determined. Like, okay. I’ve tried to stop again and again and again and again and again and again and again. Because the reason why I was trying to stop in my early 20s was because when I got ease of access, I started to see more and more aggressive and violent pornography as I searched for what I wanted. My pornography consumption definitely escalated. It. My, my pattern was more, more often and a more specific version. So, everyone’s consumption is different. Some people go for more and more often in a more hardcore version. Mine was more specific. So, I would have to look for this particular scene that I wanted to consume. To get the same level of dopamine in my brain, you know. So, that’s how it went for me. And as I was searching for that particular scene, I would come across more and more violent and aggressive pornography. And that’s one thing that drove me to be like, actually, I don’t know if I shouldn’t be navigating on these sites. And that’s another reason why I started realizing this could be problematic was the increased frequency. The deceit that introduced into certain relationships. And, and that violence that I was seeing. So, I stopped. I tried to stop again and again and again. And I would always turn back, you know. And I felt like that the urge to consume pornography was stronger than my will to not consume pornography. And going to my marriage with my wife, we went through six years of marriage without her knowing about my consumption of pornography. And so, that is evidence showing the ease of access and ease of privacy. Because, you know, we had a great relationship at that time. I love and loved my wife. I feel like we were happy then and we’re happy now. And obviously, we don’t have a perfect relationship, but I’d say that it was a great relationship. Even during the times when I was consuming it. But I think, that, it, that deceit the fact that I was hiding that from her. I thought that I could do that and do that forever without it affecting me and having a negative impact. But I soon found out that, that wasn’t true. That there definitely, there’s always a negative impact when it comes to deceit.

Andrew Love: So, so well, what was that? When did when the house of cards come crashing down?

Garrett Jonsson: You know, my house of cards. Like, she didn’t catch me, right? I could have. I probably could have continued looking at porn in secret for probably ever. But what happened. The reason why I decided to tell the truth was because I heard a presentation by Fight the New Drug. And I didn’t, I didn’t intend on hearing that. I had no clue who Fight the New Drug was. And my wife is a coach at a high school. And so, Fight the New Drug was doing a community event at their high school. And my wife and I share one car. And I ride my bike everywhere. And, but this particular night, I went to go pick my wife up from work with the car. So, I drive to the high school. And as I’m waiting for my wife, this presentation is happening at the high school. It’s a community event. So, I sit down and watch this event. And it’s my first time learning about Fight the New Drug. Ariel, my wife, she finishes her work. And she comes and sits with me. And, we watched like 45 minutes of this presentation. And at this point, she still has no clue that I’m consuming pornography. And as I’m watching the presentation, it’s resonating with me because of my experience. And so, I got the, that’s what gave me the courage to tell the truth finally was the education. Because I realized that I wasn’t the only one with a compulsive behavior to pornography. That I wasn’t the only one with this challenge. And so, it gave me courage to be like. Okay, like, nothing’s wrong with me, personally. It’s just the pornography is what is causing the problem for me. So, I told my wife the truth. We were sitting in bed. So, a couple weeks after that presentation. We were sitting in bed. Laying in bed. And I’m kind of an annoying person to sleep with at the very beginning of the sleep session because I have to get like this perfect position. Right after beyond my stomach and I have to have a pillow underneath my hip. And like, a pillow underneath my feet. And like, it’s like, I use three pillows. And I sleep in the same position. And so, I get. I’m like the annoying one trying to get this perfect position. But this particular night, I was just laying on my back and looking at the ceiling. And it was dark. And Ariel, obviously, really soon recognizes that something’s up, you know. And so, I have a few minutes to get, get the courage to tell the truth. And she was wondering like, what was I gonna tell her. So well, this wasn’t the best approach. Like, for those listening, like laying in bed in the dark, maybe not isn’t the best approach to telling your significant other. Because she’s just playing these guessing games of what I did, you know. So anyway, I told her the truth. And then, we wanted to. Like long story short. We wanted to do something about it. We wanted to do our part. Because also my wife was never very educated on the harmful effects of pornography, or on healthy sexuality. So, we were in a similar boat there. My wife, she’s never seen pornography. Which is kind of a rare thing. So, we’re different in that way. But we’re similar in regards to our, our, our lack of sexual education. And around the harmful effects of pornography. So yeah, we were, we wanted to make a difference. We wanted to do our part to build awaress. And so, we decided to do a couple projects. So yeah, that’s where we sit right now.

Andrew Love: Well. So, how? I mean, how did she take it? Like, because we have, that’s always a common question. I just give a presentation to a group of people out here online. And you know, both always comes from parents and children. Like, how do I broach this topic? What happens if they decapitate me after I tell them? You know, like, there’s always. That the fear. That’s the biggest looming thing that anybody has is what happens when I tell the, you know? So, you, you were sitting. It’s interesting you said, you know, a couple weeks later. So, you were sitting this presentation. Probably squirming in your seat. Probably trying to observe how many beads of sweat coming up to the side of your brow. Like, does she know? Can she tell? Because I give these presentations and I can tell when somebody’s experiencing that, that kind of process. And so, you’re sitting there squirming. Then, it takes you two weeks. And then, it just becomes unbearable to the point where you can’t even get into your bionic sleep position with pillow and pillow man. So like, can you just take us through those two weeks of like. As much as you can.  Like, what, what brought you to the point where you had to tell her? And then, how did she take that?

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah, I think the. I started to realize that there were three things that pornography was creating inside me and perpetuating inside me. And it was arrogance, deceit, and resentments.

Andrew Love: And so, you realize that in those two weeks?

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah. And even, throughout this five year period. Since, I’ve told the truth, I’ve also realized that. And looking back during those times. Yeah. I mean, I created resentments. I had resentments towards my partner, towards Ariel. I had resentments towards pornography. I had resentment toward myself. And then arrogance, I thought that, my. I thought that I was more important than my wife. And I didn’t, I didn’t, I would have never verbalized that. And I feel like I treated my wife with respect. But I think, sometimes my actions spoke louder than my words. And that, I did think that my, that I was more important. Because there was times when we would. So, I was taught because of my sexual education through pornography and other sources. That when I wanted to consume, pornography was there. You know, there was no partner involved. There was no other person involved. And so, I think that crept into our relationship. Where, when I was in the mood, she should be too. And that was just arrogance. And then, so resentments, arrogance, and deceit. Yeah. I mean. I thought, honestly. I mean, I wasn’t telling the full truth. And so, I thought that I could live life that way. And eventually, it just started to eat at me, because I didn’t feel authentic. And I did feel and I did notice that it was affecting me. Not only in that particular area. But that pornography, my consumption habits would have negative impacts in other areas of my life. So, the deceit, the resentments, the arrogance, they led me to tell the truth. I got to the point where I respected and understood that my wife could potentially leave me. If that’s what she decided was best for her. And so, I had to accept that. And that was a very scary thing to accept. I, I didn’t want to tell my wife because I loved her. And I love her. And so, that’s a weird thing. Because I’m deceiving. I’m whining, because I love her. Which is such a not okay thing, right? And so, yeah. So, finally, I just told her the truth. Accepting that she could decide that she didn’t want to be with me anymore.

Andrew Love: Wow. So, you had, you, you kind of. You had reached this state where you had kind of given up on trying to manipulate the outcome. And you just said, “This is, this is me.” And you just kind of came forth. And whatever happens, happens. That’s pretty bold. That’s pretty bold. And then, how did she, how did she respond? How did she take that?

Garrett Jonsson: She is busy. We, at the time, we had two kids. And she was very busy. She worked a lot. She also helps with the kids a ton. And so, she had a lot of honor plate at the time. And so, I think that she turned to those things to keep her mind busy. I don’t think she was ready to address this in any other way. That was the way she just chose to do it. And I wish she were here to kind of answer how she felt at that time because it’s kind of her job. But, yeah. She, I think she just wanted to occupy her time and thoughts with other things and push this concern to the backburner. So, she didn’t freak out on me. Or like, she wasn’t really even angry. There wasn’t no anger towards me. But, there was an awkwardness for the next couple weeks. Where we wouldn’t talk about it. So, it was the elephant in the room kind of thing. We continued about our lives. And then finally, I asked my wife, like, do we want to talk about this more? And so, we started other conversations about it. But yeah, that’s how it went for us. And the thing, the scary part is that you just never know how it’s gonna go because there’s two individuals involved. So.

Andrew Love: Sure, sure. But then, you said, the next step was you got educated together. So, obviously, eventually, you had that second conversation. And then, you decided to. Did you educate kind of in tandem? Like let’s do this hand in hand or so, kind of one needing the other.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah. So, we ended up going to therapy. I mentioned that I’ve been to one therapy session. And that was a couples therapy session. And so, we went to that. And we ended up. You know, how therapy can go. It can open, you’re opening up wounds. Right? And you’re discussing this. So, it’s not the most comfortable thing. And, so, at the time, we thought that therapy would be more instantaneous. Like the relief of the help, or the benefits would be more instantaneous. And so, after we left that first session, we got into an argument. And we never went back to therapy. That type of therapy, right? Like, the Orthodox therapy. But, um. So, we started conversations, the, together. And we started talking about it. We started figuring out. Like, we were just curious, why neither of us had, had meaningful conversations about the harmful effects of pornography. And we came to the conclusion that we wanted to do our part to build awareness. And so, I was about to turn 30 years old. And I’ve done several events, endurance events in my life. And there’s some pretty kind of uncommon ones that a lot of people haven’t done. And I’ve finished them. And so, I’m not fast at all. But, I’ve finished every endurance event that I’ve started. I’ve finished it. So I’ve done, you know, I’ve done like the marathon. And then, I did Niotriathlon Man. And then, I did. I ran a 100 mile endurance, like an ultra marathon through the mountains. It’s called the Wasatch 100. It took me 35 hours, and I finished. And so. And then, I biked from Vancouver, Canada, to the bottom of Washington. And so, I’ve just done some endurance events. And I wanted to use that talent of endurance events. My wife has also done an Ironman and some other things. So, we both were kind of on board there. And I wanted to use those talents to build awareness somehow. So, I was turning 30 years old, about the time when I decided to do these projects. And so, I’m gonna incorporate that talent. And so, I did 30 marathons in 30 days wearing handcuffs. And so, I ask the project that I came up with, like, how can I build awareness? It was 30 and 30 in handcuffs. So, I presented this idea to my wife and she’s like, “Sure.” Like, what we want to do. So, I quit my job. And I did 30 marathons in 30 days wearing handcuffs. And it was the, it was terrible. It was not fun. And the whole goal was to build awareness. But, for the first 26 marathons, I didn’t get the attention to the cause that I wanted. And, but, by marathon 26 there was some more good attention towards the cause. And so, I was stoked about that. And after that project, I decided to do another project called the…

Andrew Love: So, the first 26 marathons, people just thought you were an escaped convict. And, did you like sign up? Or there just happened to be sequential marathons, every day, for 30 days? Are you running like, or you set up a marathon on your own?

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah, I just ran a 26.2 miles on my own. And, I did what’s called substitute Saturday. And so, I had a lot of support. But just not the amount of attention to the cause that I wanted, you know, at first. But I had what’s called substitute Saturday. So, people can run for me using hashtags. So, they can do that virtually. Or also, they would come and run with me, physically. And so, every Saturday, I wouldn’t have to run a marathon because people were running those miles for me. And I thought that there was cool symbolism there. Because, it’s like, we need each other, right? You can do this by ourselves. And so, that community definitely helped me. So, actually technically, I didn’t run 30 marathons. I ran, you know, like 25 marathons. So.

Andrew Love: Slacker. You lazy fat, though. So, no, that’s, that’s incredible. And so, who started paying attention at 26? Like, where, where was this attention coming from?

Garrett Jonsson: So, at the time, I didn’t even work. I didn’t work with Fight the New Drug. I had never met anyone from Fight the New Drug. I was just pushing all of the attention to Fight the New Drug because that’s where I got my education from. And so, um, Fight the New Drug didn’t know that I was doing this project until late into the project. Even though, I was posting and reaching out to them. You know, they have a lot of followers. And so, somehow it got swept under the rug. It didn’t get noticed. But yeah, we were able to contact some news outlets and through social media. We reached out to Terry Crews. I reached out to Terry Crews via instagram. And I was like, “Hey, I’m doing this.” And, it was interesting because as I was doing the 30 marathons, Terry Crews came out on Facebook and talked about his challenge with pornography. So then, people were messaging me. And they’re like, “Hey, like, I know you’re doing this 30 marathon a 30 day thing. Terry Crews just came out and talked about his challenge.” So, that marathon like 26, I reached out to Terry. And I was like, “Hey, this is a long shot. But I would love for you to support this 30 and 30 thing and do substitute Saturday for me. Like, go run on a Saturday and post about it.” And so, he’s like, “Yeah, for sure.” He responded, you know. Very unlikely, but he responded. And he’s like, “Yeah, I’ll do that for sure.” So, he post with his son. He went. Him and his son went out and ran on track and posted about it. And yeah, so after that, I wanted to do another project. To build more awareness. And so, I’m like, “I already quit my job might as well take advantage of this time when I don’t have that obligation.” And so, I decided to do coast to coast in chains. And riding my bicycle from Virginia to San Francisco. So.

Andrew Love: Wow. I know that’s awesome. And, and that. How long did that take, first of all? How many?

Garrett Jonsson: The coast to coast? Yeah. It took 56 days.

Andrew Love: 56 days. Wow. And so, Fight the New Drug knew about that right? Because that, that got documented.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah. So, what happened on that one was I still had no relationship really with Fight the New Drug. At marathon 26, I contacted. Fight the New Drug reached out to me. And, we interacted a little bit. But, I didn’t have much of a relationship with Fight the New Drug. And so, when I presented this new idea. This coast to coast. First, I presented it to my partner, to Ariel. She was like, “You got do it.” That was her first response which was kind of unusual. Because it’s like, which like, what wife, what partner says, “Yeah. Like go be unemployed for 60 days. And ride your bike across United States.” Kind of thing.

Andrew Love: And I got the kids, by the way.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah, exactly. So, she. Yeah. I, still, to this day. I don’t know exactly, how or why we did this. But I think the, the goal was just to bring attention to the cause. But, yeah, going back to your question about documenting coast to coast. My friend, my good friend, Austin Heywood. He has parents, his parents live in West Virginia. And he happened to be in West Virginia, the day that I flew out to Virginia. And so, I got my bike. I packaged it up. Sent it to Virginia on an airplane with me. And he met me in Virginia. I guess, it was pretty close to where he was at. And so, the first, like the footage you see on the video. The Fight the New Drug has produced.

Andrew Love: Yeah, yeah.

Garrett Jonsson: That footage is from Austin. From my friend Austin. He. And that’s why, it looks professionals because he’s a videographer. And then, you’ll notice that the footage throughout me writing from Virginia to San Francisco is me with a cell phone. So, I did the project. I mean, I had lots of support at home. Bu, I was the only one out there. I didn’t have a crew. And no one was out there filming me. So, the, the footage. Yeah. It was a, it was a crazy. It was like being homeless, you know, for 56 days. I didn’t. My wife and I don’t have a significant amount of money. That I’m just staying in hotels when I want and things like that. You know, we had bills to pay and a mortgage to pay. And so, you know, I was camping. And I had what’s called a bivy. And a bivy is like a small tent. It’s like the size of a sleeping bag. You just zip yourself up inside of it. And you can sleep wherever. It’s waterproof. And so, when I would roll into a new town. As I crossed the United States, I would be like, “Okay, where am I gonna sleep tonight?” I have to find a place to sleep. A place to camp. So, I slept all over. I slept on people’s trampolines. I would meet people a restaurant. And they would ask what I’m doing, you know. Because I have a big bike with all this gear on it. And I would end up sleeping on their trampoline. I slept on the grass at the post office. I slept in the trees, like in the woods. You know. Wherever I could. So, it was a wild thing.

Andrew Love: That’s really cool. And then, but that, that entire time, were you like razor sharp? You know exactly why you’re doing it and you did it with total conviction. No?

Garrett Jonsson: No. Because if you think about what I did, it’s very uncommon. You know, I had two kids. So, people were like, “You’re an idiot. Why are you leaving your kids?” You know. “You’re wasting time. And why are you leaving your kids? And why are you putting this burden? Like you’ve already talked about how you looked at pornography behind your wife’s back. And now, you’re leaving her with two kids. Like you’re an idiot.” And if you think about her parents, like how challenging would be to support us. When your daughter’s husband is leaving to do these nonsense. This is nonsense. It was stupid, to be honest. In their, in their eyes. But to my. And, I totally understand why they thought that. I think that if my little girl had a husband that was doing this, I would have a very hard time supporting it. A hundered percent, I would be very skeptical. But, my wife and I were both on the same page. And before I left, my wife said, “The only thing, Garett. Like as you start this project, the only thing is, you cannot quit. You cannot come home early. No matter what.” So, I had various people. Several people throughout this journey. Call me and say, “Garrett, like when you’re ready to come home, I’ll come get you. Like when you want to quit, I’ll come get you. Because this is a stupid idea. It’s not going anywhere. I don’t see the vision behind it. And so, yeah. When you’re ready, just let us know and we’ll come get you.” But, I couldn’t do that because my wife said not to do that. You know?

Andrew Love: That’s super difficult, right? Like all these weirdos. Like the Noah’s. Like, “All right. Back to work. Working on my boat.” All right, Noah. You crazy man.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah, I don’t know if I can compare that to my, my thing. It’s very different. But, um, yeah. I think, we’re the same.

Andrew Love: Same idea. Same idea of just like, the, that, there’s, it makes no damn sense. From a humanistic point of reason.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah. Lgically speaking.

Andrew Love: It’s the Field of Dreams. It’s basically Field of Dreams, right? And, and there’s, there’s no reason other than there’s, there’s conviction. And the fact that your wife did support you is obviously paramount. But it must be a huge, you know, it must have brought you guys  a lot closer together. So, that’s cool.

Garrett Jonsson: One thing I didn’t mention is that I did this thing with chain. So, I arrived in. I sent my bike over to Virginia. And the day of the event, Austin’s waiting for me. He slept in the hotel. Like we shared a room because we’re gonna get in the bike all prepared. And he’s getting his video stuff all prepared. And I’m like, “This needs something else.” Like this isn’t it,, yet. And so I took a cab to Home Depot and got chains. And hook them to my bike. And it was coast to coast and chains. And so, I didn’t know that the chains part would be a thing until the morning of the event. Like the start. Like day one. And the chains, the cool thing is, is that by the carabiners. The hook that change to my bike by day 21. Those chains, the carabiners had worn away. And the chains released. So, actually, I have some of the chains right here.

Andrew Love: Oh. It’s darker.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah. So, you can see. I don’t know if you can tell in this video because we’re on zoom. But, there is lots of wear and tear on here. But, what broke free was the carabiner. The carabiners. That was a weaker metal. And so yeah, it was chained free by the, by day 21. And so, that was cool. It was, there was a lot of symbolism there.

Andrew Love: Yeah. Yeah. That’s really cool. And then, so you made it. Obviously, you listened. You followed your wife’s advice. And then, what was waiting for you on the other end of this, of this journey? First of all, how did you even get home?

Garrett Jonsson: The coolest part was when you said, what’s waiting for me on the other end? My family. Yes, yes. I think on average, it probably takes, you know. If someone’s gonna ride a bike across the United States. Which happens a lot. It’s a common thing. Maybe, more common, some people might know. It probably takes about 90 days. Like someone will usually take about 80 to 90 days to do it. So, 56 is, you know, on the, a little bit faster. And the reason why is because I was wasn’t spending time doing tourism. Like I wasn’t out there to see the country. I was out there to get to the other side of the country and get back to my family. And so, when you asked, what was waiting on the other side? Like, my family. And that’s what this was all about. When I. When you asked, at some point you asked, what was the motivation behind it? You know, what was the conviction? And for me, when my parents or her parents were like, why are you doing this? Stay home with your family and be with them. My honest thought, maybe, it was. My honest thought was like, “Well, people go to work.” And, they, when someone’s in the military, they have to leave their family to go to war. And I’m not, I’m not trying to compare myself to a veteran, right? I’m not doing that because I have so much respect for veterans who leave and fight for our country. But, I would, I just thought like. Okay. If, if there’s a reason to do that. My reason for doing this. For leaving my family for 56 days was to build awareness. In hope that it can provide hope for other families and for our family, to be closer to work things out when, when possible. And so, my family on the other side. I met my wife. She met me in San Francisco when we rode the last mile. together on the Golden Gate bridge. And so, that’s a moment of bliss. And I’m a firm believer that moments of bliss are not free. And so, we definitely had to pay a price for that moment of bliss.

Andrew Love: Absolutely. That’s, that’s really cool. And then, finally, Fight the New Drug started taking note. Obviously. Because they, I mean, I saw that video. Because they were really heavily promoting it. They were obviously very proud of you and what you had accomplished. So, you got their attention. Did that happed along the way? Where they became more and more, you know, observant of you? How did that happen?

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah, exactly. That’s exactly what happened. It was, uh, the relationship just grew organically. I was like, I’m gonna do this. I would love to prmote Fight the New Drug in this way. And after the, after the event, the CEO of Fight the New Drug, the founder. he reached out to me and he’s like, “Hey, we would love to do a video on your experience.” And I had documented a lot of it because that was the whole purpose, was to build awareness in some way. So, I was like, “Here you go. Here’s all the footage that I have. You guys can definitely this. And I’m going to go find a job. And you guys, can, you take all this and utilize it. And hopefully it does some good.” And they started using that video that you’re referencing in their live presentations at like Junior High’s and High schools and Colleges. And then, he reached out to me. And he’s like, “Hey. We would like you to present your own experience. And do some presentations for us.” So, that’s when I first kind of got hired by Fight the New Drug. To present. And so, I started presenting. And you know, I really enjoyed it. And it was, it was rewarding. But, it wasn’t the most convenient thing. I put the goal to never deny, a, an opportunity to speak. And so, I had to take on jobs to support my family that were very flexible. And so, it was just a wild time in our life for you know, probably two years. Where I was working three jobs and I would travel for Fight the New Drug a lot. So, fast forward to today. And I’ve had the opportunity to speak to over 150 audiences in like 20 states and three countries, you know. So, yeah. I mean, it’s been, it’s been a wild ride and it’s been, it’s been very cool.

Andrew Love: And now, it’s even cooler right with the podcas because that, that, that took some time. Obviously, the, the right ingredients had to be there. Because, you know, there’s no lack of need or desire, right? But it, obviously, just wasn’t the right time. Until, you know, you came along and then, the whole team and all that. So, now you have this amazing podcast. So how, how was that? Like, how was forming that? Was it kind of a lot of planning or did you guys just say, “We got to do this.” And you just made it happen quick. Or how did that come about?

Garrett Jonsson: I think, the, the. Clay, the founder of Fight the New Drug. One of the founders of Fight the New Drug. And, the executive director here, Natalie. They wanted to do a podcast, but the timing just wasn’t right. But yeah, about two years ago, they came to me as I was presenting, and they’re like, “Hey, there’s an opportunity to start a podcast. Would you be interested in helping out with that?” And my first response was like, “Yeah. I’m down to help out. But you got to know that, it’s probably going to be a slow start. Because I have no clue on how to podcast.” And so, yeah. I was very upfront. And I, I didn’t know. We didn’t know exactly how is this was gonna work out. And so, we did some brainstorming sessions. And we figured out a name. And we decided on that. We decided on this. And concept and what it was. And then, yeah. It’s, it is what it is today. And we’re. Yeah. We’re just gratefully, you know. I. There’s so many people that are talking about this around the world. Great organizations, great individuals who are trying to do their part. And so, we’re just we feel fortunate to be one of those groups that’s trying to do their part. And we feel so grateful for all of our fighters around the worl. Because that’s what it’s all about.

Andrew Love: Absolutely. Giving them giving them power, right? Flooding them plug in to the energy that you guys have. Which is very needed, right? Because that fight is like, it’s definitely you’re swimming upstream. Still, culturally, right? You’re just getting lambasted left and right. And, I’d like to hear that, too. Like, because actually, the last, the only time I really got to spend time with clay. He spoke at our event that we held in Las Vegas, three years ago or so. And I was just like, you know, kind of praising him, praising his words like you guys are the coolest. I was totally nerding out. I was like, “You guys are the coolest.” You know, I turned into a fanboy. And he’s like, “Yeah. Well, not everybody would agree.” Like, “What do you mean?” Is like, “Yeah. We have a lot of haters.” Like, “No. Not you guys. You have such a nice, you know, you know, jacket and shirt combination. How could anybody dislike you?” And then, yeah it turns out. There’s, there’s a, there’s quite a few people who dislike this conversation. And don’t want it to happen. And don’t want it to happen, sincerely. They just kind of want to crap on, on this kind of conversation. So, I’d love to hear about that too. Because you’ve obviously garnered some attention. You had some, you know, Terry Crews on. You had Lamar Odom on. You know, some big names, right? So, with big names come a lot of eyeballs and ear holes. And, and quickly soon after the trolls are always hiding behind a bush with a bunch of, you know, blow darts. So, how has that been? Both sides. I’d love to hear both sides of like, you know, some of the some of the wonderful stories. That, you know, launching a  podcast and being heard by so many people. But also, the backlashes that comes with that.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah, I don’t.

Andrew Love: You don’t have to dwell on anything.

Garrett Jonsson: No. I was just gonna say it’s tough to talk about the negative because I just don’t pay attention to it. I know that it exists. I try not to pay attention to it, I should say that. I know that it exists. And, we try to, we try to put out content, knowing that there are haters. So that, we put out content that is kind of haterproof, right? Like, we, we just  focus on science facts and personal accounts. But of course, there’s gonna be haters. But the reality is that we were okay with that. You know. I understand that everyone has the freedom to choose, you know. We all get to choose what we do in this life. And so, I respect them. You know, that’s fine. If they decide to do that, then that’s their freedom of choice. So, that, that helps me. And one of my favorite quotes, that kind of came to mind as you asked this question, was that. A man or I guess I should say, because it’s not gender specific. A person convinced against their will is of the same opinion still. And so, I’m really not trying to convince anyone of anything. And we, at Fight the New Drug, aren’t doing that either. We’re just presenting. We’re just, we’re in research. We are research agri-, aggregate. And we are just allowing people to consider these things. And hopefully, they can make an educated decision. There’s no convincing. So, yeah.

Andrew Love: No. I completely agree. And it’s, it’s, in many ways, just allowing people to hear the other side of the story, righ? So, that they can choose and make an informed decision because it’s a very lopsided conversion. Where one’s like a scream and one’s a whisper. So, you’re allowing that whisper to kind of be amplified a bit. And that’s, that’s huge because you guys do have access to people and people need to hear that. You know. Because again, a lot of people just like you, like you. And your story that you just told, you just didn’t even know. You didn’t know what you didn’t know until you sat down in that room and you got some information and how did that change the trajectory of your entire life. So, it’s extremely valuable. I just, I just. The reason I bring up haters is not to feed that kind of gossip side of us. That likes to watch, you know, people fighting in the streets. But more, just to allow people the opportunity to know that whenever you’re going to do something and stand up for something that is feels deeply true to you, you’re always going to get backlash on all levels. Just like you experienced on a very personal level when you decided to ride a bike across the country. That family and friends were like, “Hey, give up. Stop being crazy.” This kind of thing. That, that’s part of this journey. Is when you, when you when you’re seeking after truth. And especially, as it pertains to sexuality, there’s so much misinformation that, that it’s easy to get bitten by. You know. Haters, snakes, vipers. Whatever. And it’s easy to kind of give up on your journey. But, I just like hearing from you because you, you go in with a lot of conviction. And Fight the New Drug is not slowing down. And I love that about you, guys. Because I know, you haven’t slowed down and I’m sure there was a lot of temptation. I, you know, I’ve seen, I’ve seen some of the stuff out there. So, it’s awesome. And I just want to congratulate you on that, you know.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah. Well, I always say that you know, I’m a fan of endurance events. And I think that the most, the most, like the most powerful or the most, the most challenging endurance event is live. And, I’m not saying that I have things figured out. I am not saying that my wife and I have a perfect relationship. But, I can most definitely say that our relationship is better today than it was before. And, I thought it was a great relationship then. Even though, there was that deceit. But, yeah. So, I’m not saying I have the answers. I’m trying to enter through this thing as well. You know. In regards to the haters, it’s just like, of course, they’re, they’re gonna be there. And, you know, I, I honestly just have some empathy for them. And not saying that I’m above them either, right?

Andrew Love: Sure. Sure, sure, sure.

Garrett Jonsson: But I just think, that oftentimes. If, because of our human nature, I’d say that if someone’s hating, I think they probably lack understanding. And lack some empathy and lack a little bit of knowledge on this topic. So, that’s when I, when I say I have empathy for him. That’s why.

Andrew Love: I hear you, bruh. I hear you. So, I mean, you, you already touched on it. In terms of endurance and that life is you got to play the long game. But other than that, do you have any advice that you’d give? So, we have like I said, we have parents who listen to this. Depends on the episode, you know. I had, I. There’s one episode where we got a lot of feedback from the like the gamut, the spectrum. Because it was my wife talking about depression. And that, that impacted our sex life and it impacted everything because of postpartum stuff, right? So, we have a lot of different types of people listening, right? But, given that, do you have any, any advice that you’d like to impart to help people? Based on like you’re interviewing some, you know, some people who’ve been through their journeys, dealing with pornography. Is there any, any wisdom that you’ve gleaned that you could pass off to, to our folks? Any advice.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah. I think, that the truth is like going back to those three things: deceit, resentment, and arrogance. If you can be on your deathbed, without those things, then I think you’re going to be in a good spot. And so, whatever it is, that’s creating resentment, arrogance, or deceit in your life or in your relationships, try to eliminate that. Whatever that might be. And I think, that when you do that, you’ll be at peace. You’ll be more present in the current time. And more at peace when, you know, we all gonna die someday. So, I’m not trying to get depressing here or talk about the dooming gloom.

Andrew Love: Speak for yourself, buddy.

Garrett Jonsson: But uh, I always think about that. You know, Momento Mori is remembered you’re going to die. And, that, if you can sometimes when I’m going through a tough time or when I feel my arrogance starting to rise. Putting my. Yeah. Then, I remember that I’m gonna die someday. Do I want to enjoy this moment or do I want to submit to anger or frustration? You know. It’s okay to feel anger. It’s okay to feel frustration. But it can also get to unhealthy levels. And so, for me, remembering those three things and avoiding those through thoughts, words and actions. It really has helped me.

Andrew Love: Yeah. That’s sounded nice. Yeah, I like it. Because that’s really, that’s like what fuels this whole industry, right? This arrogance. We were, we interviewed this guy about human trafficking and he said the two main things that fueled trafficking are, um. One was entitlement on the side. And the other is vulnerability or a lack of protection. So, like that, we’re not protecting people enough. The vulnerable people. And we also feel entitled to take from them because we feel like we can buy them, right? So, that falls under the same kind of classification of arrogance, right? Yeah. Yeah. These things can be avoided and porn feeds this in you. For sure. And you can, you can observe that in yourself. That you are definitely more pumped up with negative stuff when you’re participating in watching. You know, this substantiated, kind of hatred and misogyny and all that. So. Yeah.

Garrett Jonsson: You know, the interesting is since I’ve walked away from pornography. And over the years, you know. I have realized, like, it just, I just don’t want to turn back to pornography. Like, I don’t really ever have a desire. I’m not. I’m not saying that I’m free and in the clear. And that I never have that desire or that I’ve got it figured out, and I have this perfect plan, that you should come and follow me. And you’re going to get free of pornography, too. I’m not saying that. But just in general, I do not want to consume pornography anymore. Which is a pretty cool place for me to be in. And it’s kind of interesting because like, some people are like, what’s the difference between you know, porn and real physical intimacy and connection, and sexuality like real sex with another partner? And I kind of imagined it. I kind of. So, as I think about that, one example I can give is like, either you’re able to go on a hike, or you’re able to go on Google and look at pictures of the peak. Like, which one’s more fun, you know. I’m a person. There are some people out there who are not going to go on a hike. They’re going to prefer just to go on Google and look at a picture of the peak. You know, but I’m a person who enjoys the hike. And enjoys going out and hiking and enjoying. The peak is, is a great place to be but the entire hike is great as well. And, that’s what makes the peak even better is the fact that you had to go through the hike.

Andrew Love: Yeah. I mean, it’s an analogy. Yeah.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah, so that. And then, another analogy that I’ve had recently that I thought of is like, imagine going to buy a car. And you, the car looks great. They advertising the car like it’s the best thing. The gas mileage, the look, and all the features. And then, you get into test drive the car, and it only takes you backward. Right? Like, are you gonna buy that car? And I think that that’s what happens with pornography sometimes. It’s like, it’s advertised as like this great. That it’s harmless. It’s cool. It’s natural. And the reality is once you get in that vehicle, and you test drive it. Whether it’s. Sometimes, it takes a long time to realize that it’s taking you backward. And there is no there’s no forward. It’s just, it only has reverse. Yeah. And that’s the way that I kind of explained what pornography did for me was, there was this instant gratification, right? You see this new car. Like, “Dang, I want that new car. It’s nice.” And then, after a while test driving it. You finally realize that you can only go in reverse. You can only go backward. And so, for me, it’s like, I just value so much the relationship that I have with my wife today. And, we didn’t have to experience that time where I was going in reverse and slowly and not even really realizing it. And now, we’ve thrown that car away. An we’ve purchased a vehicle that can actually put us in the right direction.

Andrew Love: That will take you to the peak. That will take you to the peak of the mountain.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah. That can take us to the peak. And yeah, I actually proposed to my wife on top of a mountain here, locally. And we just liked that we’re celebrating 10 years of marriage. We hiked that together, recently. And we. I proposed on top and we just celebrated 10 years on top of the mountain together. And you know, there’s a lot of symbolism there. Because the hike is, you know, it’s not an easy hike. And you get some cuts and bruises and you trip and fall a couple of times during that hike. And there are times where you’re like, man, I can’t go anymore. And then, you get some nutrients and you’re like, “Okay, I can go a little bit more.” So, you know, there’s, there’s all these, there’s so much symbolism there. And I just gotta say, like, I just want to encourage everyone in the world. Like if you are a person who has deceit right now in your relationship, or you’re deceiving yourself, or. I just encourage you to tell the truth and work through it. There is no easy way. There’s no, there’s no quick fix. But it’s all part of the hike.

Andrew Love: Yeah, I appreciate it, man. I appreciate the wisdom. And there’s a lot of gold nuggets in this, in this interview. Because you’re, you’re somebody who. It sounds like you’re a man of action. Who has intuition and who trusts his gut? And you’ve let that lead you back out of the mess, right? Through all these different, you know, very big, you know, acts like going across the country. But also the smaller acts like lying in bed and not going to sleep. You know. Allowing yourself to have that conversation. So, that, if you guys get. These metaphors are great. But also, what’s more, more impressive to me is that he’s, he’s a man on a journey. And he’s like, he said, he’s not perfect, but he’s willing to go out on the limb and try to do the right thing. And I think, that will always, in the long run, put you in the right place.

Garrett Jonsson: And, you know, what’s even better than like the coast to coast of the 30 and 30? Even better than that is just when a caregiver talks to their kid about the harmful effects of pornography. That act is more important than 30 and 30 or coast to the coaster. Anything. And that’s the whole purpose of Fight the New Drug. The reason why Fight the New Drug exists. The reason why all these other organizations, the reason why you guys exist is to start conversations. That’s the goal. That’s the most important thing there is. And so, whether it’s starting a conversation because you’re a caregiver and you want to talk to your kid. Or because you are being deceptive and you want to talk to your spouse. Or your spouse and you want to talk to your husband or wife about potential use and consumption. Whatever it is. I think it does come down to love. And I think, it does come down to a connection. And my projects, the 30 and 30 and coast to coast. Honestly, they’re just, it’s nonsense. They’re nonsense, but they’ve served a purpose. And the real goal there is the connection and love and, and fight. So.

Andrew Love: Absolutely. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you for bringing it back there. Because that’s absolutely you know, the, the old saying of the opposite of addiction is connection. And so that’s what we’re, we’re hoping. Yeah. So, thank you. Thank you so much for, for taking this time to be with us. And.

Garrett Jonsson: Can I give a tip to our, to the caregivers?

Andrew Love: You can absolutely do whatever you want at this point. You got, you, you had me at hello, Mister.

Garrett Jonsson: So, the example I want to give to the caregivers is that. So, I want you to follow my instructions. I’m going to say a statement right now. I want you to follow my instructions to a tee. And if you don’t, then you’re going to be in trouble. Like, it’s a problem. You have to follow my instructions. So, close your eyes. And, don’t picture the Mona Lisa. Do not picture the Mona Lisa. Don’t picture the Mona Lisa. Don’t picture the Mona Lisa. Don’t picture the Mona Lisa. What are you picturing right now? Andrew?

Andrew Love: Mona Lisa.

Garrett Jonsson: Mona Lisa, right? And so, I think that as you go into these conversations. I would just highly recommend not coming into a conversation with don’t. Because I think, that just like we all learned, as someone says, “Don’t picture an elephant.” Or “Don’t picture the Mona Lisa.” Our tendency is to picture that thing. And so, as we go and talk to people in our lives. Not only, I think there needs to be the right approach. And I think that the, for sure, the unhealthy approach is always don’t. Another thing, if I can give one more example. Because I’m a dad, you’re a dad. How many kids you have Andrew?

Andrew Love: Tres.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah, me too. So, my youngest is two and a half right now. And he’s probably our most durable and most wild, right? So he’s just running around, always bouncing off the walls and we’re trying to control him, you know. And, and tame him down a little bit. But just recently, he grabbed a knife off the kitchen counter. And like a kitchen knife. And so, I had a decision to make at that time. It was, do I get scared and freak out. Or do I stay home and try to approach him in a playful way, and then take the knife. And so, the way that this can relate to talking about the harmful effects of pornography, is that we shouldn’t come into it with fear. As challenging as that is. As that is. Because as a parent, I saw my kid with a knife. I was like, I want to protect you. But I had to stay calm to protect him at that moment. And so, I just want to encourage the caregivers to stay calm. I want to encourage, as much as we can, everyone involved in both parties. Yeah, it’s a tough thing because I’m not saying that there’s not also a place for anger. But I think the key is to be slow to anger. And in most cases, calmness is going to be more healthy. So, I just. Yeah. Those things are really important because if I look back on my childhood. If my parents came and talked to me about pornography, I would have lied to them 100 times. Probably, I don’t think I would have been open with them. And maybe, on the hundred and first conversation. Maybe, at that point, I would have opened up. But, if they were angry or intimidated me in any way, I don’t know that I ever would have opened up. So, just, just know that as you’re going to these conversations as tough as it is. Try to keep those things in mind.

Andrew Love: Awesome. Yeah. I like it. Um, yeah. Mona Lisa is still in my head, by the way. So yeah, we, we appreciate that. Um, it’s, it’s really a skill set. Learning how to talk about stuff and it’s, can’t do much in one conversation. It’s, that’s what we try to talk about too, is play the long game in terms of the sex conversation. It should be an enjoyable experience for everybody. Takes time, though. Like dancing. Nobody’s going on the first lesson. So, yeah. Again, man. I just appreciate it. I sought you out. I don’t seek many people out. We, you know, but I really wanted to get you on this podcast. And, I’m so glad I did. I think, there’s a lot of stuff that people are going to take away from this. And I just kind of blurted it out to a few people here and there. And they were really excited to hear you. So, anyway, I’m just so glad we can plug into your wisdom.

Garrett Jonsson: And yeah, it was great. It was really fun to talk to you. You guys are doing great things. And we feel fortunate that you did reach out. So, thank you for making that happen.

Andrew Love: Yeah, awesome. Well, so. What is the name of the podcast? And where can people find you?

Garrett Jonsson: The name of the podcast is Considered Before Consuming. And, you can find the podcast wherever you get your podcast. You can find us at Fight the New Drug, fightthenewdrug.org. And, we’re on all of the social media platforms. So, you can find us there. And I also love to connect with people. Me on a personal level. So, you guys can definitely find me on Instagram at Garrett Jonsson or other places. So, yeah. It’s all about connection. And we, at the Fight the New Drug. We. Yeah. We love that connection. So, come find us and join us in this, in this movement.

Andrew Love: Awesome. Thank you so much, Garrett.

Garrett Jonsson: Yeah. It was great, Andrew.

 

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