Ep. 42 - Podcast Thumbnail

#42 – Watching Porn with Your Spouse | Mythbusters

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Ep. 42 - Podcast Thumbnail

 

We’re living in a world where there is a lot of misinformation. Most of this appears to be legitimate and widely held unless you peel back the layers and think about it. This misrepresentation of the truth led to the false beliefs or ideas people believe in. And in the area of sex, this quite a difficult situation. 

In this episode, Andrew and Sammy did some myth-busting in the world of sex and porn. They talked about how porn affects and distracts relationships accompanied by these assumptions. 

In today’s generation, it’s vital to correlate your future with the things you believe. Take into consideration a lot of things such as the quality of your relationship over time, think about how this misinformation may slowly erode the love, trust, and attraction within the relationship. We have to care about what we participate in because this becomes a part of the feedback loop that shapes our culture, society, and the world around us.

  • Watching porn together with your spouse 
  • How does porn with consent affect your relationship with yourself, your partner, and the world around you 
  • What does it look like when a couple participates in these activities
  • Porn as an education resource
    • Where to educate yourself about sex 
    •  Porn is misogynistic 
  • Porn that is instructional rather than sensational 
  • Physical sex should not be the only thing that keeps your relationship going 
    • Generate genuine connection
    • Consider what you want out of a relationship 

 

Episode Transcript:

Sammy Uyama: Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. 

Andrew Love: Hey, hey, hey. 

Sammy Uyama: My name is Sammy Uyama and I’m together here with

Andrew Love: Andrew.

Sammy Uyama: Oh, man. I’m glad, at least, if anything, we have fun recording this. It’s, uh, it’s great to be back with all of you. We’re here for another episode. I’m Sammy Uyama here with my co-host, Andrew Love. We’re still in the same places that we’ve been for the past number of months. I’m tuning in from Korea. Andrew, you’re tuning in from?

Andrew Love: I’m somewhere in Bali. I had to tell somebody where I am today. I had to conversate. And I don’t know where I am. There’s a lot of names. Not so simple here. It’s not like, “Oh I live in, you know, I don’t know, Connecticut.” You know, it’s like a city and a state. And, you know, I don’t, I don’t understand why. So, I’m close to a beach. You know, you know

Sammy Uyama: I’ve actually, when, I heard a lot of lesser developed countries. I mean, I’ve know Indonesia is like but in some places in the world. They don’t have proper address systems. It’s like you want to send them a letter somewhere? The address, what you write on the envelope is, you know, the, the house three miles over the hill. The house between the library and you know, the yellow school. 

Andrew Love: Well, yeah, I mean, I remember trying to ship stuff to Mongolia or get stuff shipped to me in Mongolia. It’s really quite complicated. And I don’t get it. Even the taxi system in Mongolia? There’s, I don’t, it’s, there’s no addresses. I don’t know. But they got us there. So, a system is a system. Whatever. Whatever works. So yes, I’m somewhere. I don’t know where. And it’s beautiful. And it’s hot. And I’m ready to go.

Sammy Uyama: Yeah. Today, we’ve got an exciting episode for you guys. We wanted to talk about myth-busting. Not talk about, we’re gonna do some myth-busting.

Andrew Love: Let’s talk about the act of busting. We’re living in a world that a lot of misinformation. But also a lot of information that appears so legitimate and true, unless you peel back the layers and actually think about it. And in the area of sex, this is like one of the worst areas ever, because it’s very muddy. It’s a muddy situation. And we want to help clear the air on some topics. Starting with this one, Sammy, what’s, what are we going to tackle first? What are we? Which myth? Which myth are we going to bust?

Sammy Uyama: So, I mean, the areas porn and you know, we’re going to do a little series go into different areas of myths around porn. So, the first one is the idea of watching porn together with your spouse. So, it is different. People have different layers of, of objection to the idea of watching porn. And so, it’s, one layer just like, “Oh, it’s, it’s, it’s totally fine. It’s normal.” It’s one layer. Another layer is like, “Yeah. If you’re doing it in secret, it’s bad.” You know, that’s like, “Yeah. I can see how the hiding.” That’d be an issue. And like, but if you’re in a relationship with someone, and you’re like, you know, you kind of, you’re covering up for your lying. Not necessarily direct lying. You’re either lying about it, or you’re hiding it from them. So, a lot of, you know, there’s a lot of people would see that level. And so, that, that’s kind of where we want to go. It’s idea like, it’s only, that’s the only bad thing about porn. There’s nothing about porn, itself, that’s a problem. So, if your, your spouse is okay with it, or if you’re doing it together, even. It’s like, it’s a bonding activity. Then, it can be a plus. That’s what we want to talk about.

Andrew Love: And that’s, that’s, that myth is married to the idea that if we’re all just a bunch of consenting adults, what’s the problem, right? Which is a very convenient belief system that requires you to not really consider the future and also have no real correlative abilities, right? Of like correlating the quality of a relationship over time. And what helps to feed a relationship, vitality. So, that it can thrive. And what slowly erodes the love within a relationship, and the trust within the relationship, and the attraction to another person within a relationship. Because that’s the, I really don’t like that, you know. Like, it’s such a, it’s such an escape from really thinking about it. Was like, “Well, if everybody’s okay with it, then it’s okay. Right?” But even, even like the idea of smoking. And I don’t want to go on a tirade, because this shows not about smoking. And I’m not saying anything about smokers. But smoking even by yourself, not a victimless activity, because, you know, insurance rates, hospitalization rates, all these things go up because of people who smoke over time. Their decisions to smoke actually cost society a huge amount of money and a lot of problems within the health care system, right? There’s too many people in the hospital with lung cancer. There’s too many people who raised the insurance rates. All these stuff. So, let’s first delve into the idea that we are not autonomous. We are individuals, but we live within the human body. We are cells within a body. That’s one thing that I think is really important to understand. To, to divorce us from the idea that, “Oh. If I’m okay with it, and my spouse is okay with it, then it’s not hurting anybody. Okay?” Because that’s, I’m not saying that it is. But I’m saying, let’s stop making that assumption and start talking about it. Now. You know what I mean?  Yeah. We are cells within the human body, for sure. And so, it’s important to consider the body as a whole. If we, in fact, care at all about ourselves and we have to care somewhat about the human body. Because what happens in society affects us. The decisions that our politicians, and celebrities, and all that make. And that we’re inundated with on a day to day basis impacts us directly. So, if we are helping to shape culture, by our actions, and by what we participate in, then we’re part of this feedback loop. That’s very important, right? So, what we do matters not just to us, but also to the world around us. So, that’s, that’s one big point that, that I just. You know, even before I was able to really deeply think about it, I got, I was really annoyed by that assumption that like, “Oh. It’s okay. It’s a, it’s a victimless crime.” First of all, porn is anything but victimless. Second of all, even if it was all organic, like watching other couples have sex porn. There’s, there’s stuff there that needs unpacking. And to just assume that it’s okay because everybody’s consenting goes back to have you consented with your future self? Have you consented with your logic, your reason, your conscience? Are you on full board here, right? So, that’s one thing.

Sammy Uyama: Right? Yeah, that’s, yeah, glad you started that. That’s really important to copy the context that we’re talking about. And, you know, we want to talk about what is, how does porn affect a relationship, regardless of whether you’re doing it on your own as a couple in secret with, with consent? There’s intrinsic impact that porn has, regardless of the context for how it’s viewed. You know, because we’re not just individuals. I mean, wait, wait. We’re not. How to put this? We are individuals. You just said we are individuals. We are individuals. We’re not autonomous. We’re not separate as an individual from other people. Yeah. We feel strongly about this. And let’s get into it. Fight us on this, man. We’re planting our flag here. 

Andrew Love: Yeah. So, wait Sammy. Let’s, let’s get personal for a second. Have you ever watched porn with your wife?

Sammy Uyama: Oh, yeah. Okay, so no. She offered to let me watch it. That’s what was. It wasn’t that, “Hey, let’s watch together.” It was like, you know, it’s early on a relationship is hey, you know, I had this history watching porn. I want to be honest about that. And she’s Oh, yeah. Next, tell me if you want to watch that, I guess it’s okay. You know, and she’s coming from this place of like, Oh, that’s normal. Guys do she didn’t really know much about porn. Yes, it’s very like, I’m like, Yeah, but like also on your uninformed, shot, informed desire to be supportive. So you know, that’s kind of a crossroads for me where it’s like, I have this permission all of a sudden, but then I do look at, you know, my reasons for not wanting to look at porn and go beyond just because she doesn’t like it. Right. It’s like, there’s this for myself, ultimately. And though the ways I know that porn affects me.

Andrew Love: Yeah. And then, the relationship, right? Because again, a relationship is like, it’s a living, breathing organism that you’re meeting. health or death, right? in small portions. What about you? Yeah. Early on in our relationship we watched. We like we were on Netflix, and we kept on seeing like, these kind of like, clearly sexy movies, but they’re not definitely not porn, and then we’re like, let’s watch one and then we watch it and then we were, like, my vows. I was like, a very pious man back then. You know, like, always waking up at 5am always praying like my conscience was hyper awake, you know what I mean? And so when I was watching it, I felt like vomiting was the weirdest thing right? I grew up in this world. I grew up you know, watching porn. My conscience slowly fell asleep but when I when I did the work of like reawakening myself my spirituality and all this, watching, it was actually a Korean movie. All about a couple that falls in love and just like has a great deal of Sexy, the sexy which is really, really long. And I honestly felt nauseous, like, weirdness. You know what I mean? Like, I felt like that nerd who gets a headache and in schools I call teacher have a headache again. You know, like the kind that wasn’t meant for this world to to. But it was weird, you know, that was the only time we really tried and we were like, yeah, this is not what we thought it was we thought it would like stimulate something within us. And it was more just like watching. Like a video of two people punching each other in the head. Like the same feeling of you, like, we stop and think, “Why are they doing this?” You know. It’s, it’s actually just kind of gross. It made us feel terrible. I don’t, I definitely think we did not make love that night.

Sammy Uyama: I guess, you asked that first just to kind of get it, get bring us into the conversation?

Andrew Love: Though, yeah. The worst thing we can do is to be righteous and to cause people to think that we’re just judging them. We just want to clarify a very prevailing pervasive myth out there that it’s a completely, you know. But just based on our experience, and so yes. Part of high noon is us, too. We want to talk about our own experience, right? 

Sammy Uyama: Yeah. I will say, I will say that we have, we have, we have had those conversations. My wife and I. And it’s like, just toying with the idea of it. And so, just being open to it. And we always came to the same conclusion that, “No. We don’t want to do that.” Yeah. So, we, I think that’s valuable to add is that we, we made the effort to be informed about our choices in, in different areas of our relationship. 

Andrew Love: Sure. Yeah. Got it, got it. Yeah, I just wanted to swing back to include ourselves in this conversation, because we’re not coming from a perfect place at all. We’re talking about, you know, what we’ve read, what we’ve understood, the people that we’ve heard be counseled, the people that we have counseled. What does this look like? When a couple participates in these activities, and.

Sammy Uyama: Oh, we’re breaking out. Hold on. Yeah. Before we actually go into points, I wanted, I think, that’s a great idea, actually. We could find a couple that has watched porn together and what their take on matter is. 

Andrew Love: The whole, the point for me is like anytime I’ve adopted, even thinking from the porn world, from this pornified world, and like, you know, adopted it in into my relationship. You know, like, asking some requests, or something like that. That wasn’t pure. That was really based on something selfish and also centered on the body, you know. That, that removed spirit, removed emotion, and removed connection in mind, from the transaction of sex. Anytime we did that, we suffered. I can say that very clearly. And so, that, that’s what I think we started to feel from being kind of stimulated from something outside of us. Our couple made us, made our hearts feel strange, and made our spirits feel strange, and made our bodies feel great, right? Oh, at least me. I don’t know about her. But it definitely just started to disconnect the rest of our being from the act of sex and that just felt off. It didn’t feel good. Does that make sense?

Sammy Uyama: Absolutely. And, and I think porn just amplifies that. Even more. It’s a, and I think, this whole this whole conversation about ‘Is it okay to watch porn as a couple?’. It really matters what context you have for what makes good sex? And if you’re, a lot of people where they’re coming from is like, good sex is about bodies. And it’s a, it’s a chemical thing. And, and I totally get it, right? From that world. A lot, you can justify a lot of stuff. So, it can make sense to me. But like, where we’re coming from what makes good sex is a different level. You know, it’s everything that you were just talking about, Andrew. About including our fusing spirit and mind, and together with the body. And you have this like, multi-dimensional thing. And then, looking at the effect porn would have on that. And porn it, and it takes you out of a, of, of a one-on-one relationship. It’s like a one on one and this other thing that you’re basically, you know, you’re, you’re focusing all of your attention on, right? And I would really, I really, actually now that I think about more, I really want to get a couple on to talk about this. And because I can, all I can talk about is hypotheticals. About what I imagined it’d be like trying to relate with my wife while watching porn together. But it’d be so much more valuable to, to actually hear that real thing, right? So, but for what it’s worth, my hypothetical is that, knowing me, I can just imagine myself. So like, ingrained in just like, the imagery that’s in front of me, right? And absorbed and gross by it. And just totally forgetting this, this human person next to me. If any, at best, I think at best, I’m like trying to just transfer this imagery like, onto her and, and I’m just focusing on her body. And then, I’m just trying to replicate the scene or the whatever we’re seeing and experience in real life. And it’s, I can’t, I can’t see any useful way that porn would enhance a one-on-one, like relationship and connection on an emotional, mental, spiritual level. 

Andrew Love: Imagine you spent like three hours, four hours cooking a delicious feast for your wife. And the only way she would eat your food as if she went to McDonald’s first and ate that, and ate that food while she was, you know, about to eat your food. And it’s like, “Why you got to do that? Like, why can’t you just enjoy my food? Is it bad? Like, why do you have to have like a, you know, some something before my food?” But yeah, I think that it’s just a weird concept of like, being stimulated outside of your couple in order to feel something within your couple is already kind of weird, right? That you would, that it’s that you’re not enough. That there’s not enough there because there’s a, there’s a notion that I know is absolutely true. It comes from, you know, our faith. And it’s like, what you invest love into becomes more beautiful, right? And then, that causes you to love it more. And it creates this really wild, amazing feedback loop and you just stop seeing the flaws in the thing, because you’re investing love into it. It’s just becoming more beautiful. And there’s enough in there if you’re doing the work, right? But the more that you focus on something else, the more that you start comparing you, naturally. Because your eyes are seeing now two, or three or whatever. You’re comparing one to the next to the next to the next. We’re comparative by nature. So, now all of a sudden, that person is not enough for you. And biologically, you’re proving that because something outside of that person is making you feel, you know, horny, in this case. And then, you’re transmuting, the horniness that you’re getting from somebody else into that person and it’s not theirs. It’s not because you think they’re beautiful, it’s because you think somebody else is beautiful, or somebody else is attractive. And that’s just kind of weird. You’re kind of like injecting somebody else into that person by doing that.

Sammy Uyama: So, another point that comes up for me is the idea that using porn as an educational resource. So, you’re getting ideas from it. You can watch porn together and kind of spice things up or be inspired. And that also sits, doesn’t sit well with me. That the, there’s a need. A genuine need that is looking be filled, which I can, I can acknowledge, but I think it’s misguided, using porn fill that need. And so, like the need is a guidance for your relationship, right? And wanting to learn, and to expand, and grow. And I think, the natural course for like the natural cycle of how our relationship, like with sex and in our marriage is supposed to develop, is that we have mentors of elders that, that we inherit from and we learn things from that guide us. We got, like older brothers or sisters, that we go to for advice and be like, “Hey, you know, we’re hit this plateau. Or you know, we’re dealing with this issue.” And, you know, there’s a lot of stuff that comes up in relationship, naturally. Not, not just like unexpected things, but like, after, while being pregnant, how to deal with sex? After having a baby, how to deal with sex? These like things that, these things that you don’t get educated on prior. It’s just like, you kind of thrust into that situation, and you need to figure it out. And I think, the natural cycle is that, we, you have people you know, you can turn into. To have a valid opinion or valid, you know, solution for it to offer you. And you know, that’s, that’s the natural way that we’re meant to, I guess you’d say spice up your relationship or to learn about sex, and what had to get better at it and what to expect. And so, that net, what would normally be like really beautiful to see this cycle is replaced by something misguided idea of using porn to learn from or to take cues from in your sexual relationship. Which, and there’s some so much we go into about what’s misguided about that. I mean, one point is not meant to be educational. And so, it’s like ridiculous to take it at face value as a potential educational resources. I mean, porn is at best entertainment, right? It’s like, it’s got a very clear intention to, to shock, to wow, and to stimulate, right? It’s regardless of the, it’s the connect, the how far it becomes from reality. Something realistic or something informational.

Andrew Love: Yeah. It’s like learning how to drive a car by watching Harry Potter fly. You know, what does he fly? 

Sammy Uyama: Yeah. A prim stick. You really need to watch the movie, man. Or like, you know more. You know, that’s how ridiculous it is. But, but even learning how to drive by watching Fast and the Furious. I mean, that’s really exactly that same kind of idea, isn’t it?

Andrew Love: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. There’s, it’s, also, if you were to learn about sex from porn, what you’re learning about is different positions of the body of two people who are paid to do this, who do not give a crap about each other. And in many cases, you know, they’ve done studies where huge amounts of porn, the study I read, was like up to 80% of the point that they surveyed was misogynistic towards women. So, you’re learning about positions that are denigrating women. And the opposite of respect. The opposite of loving. And, but even if it wasn’t, which is misogynistic, you’re learning about the bodies. And like Sammy was saying, including other people into the conversation that you trust and know and care about, you’re adding the elements of love, spirituality, and they’re the mind. It the kind of like the color of a human being. You’re adding that element to sex. And that’s usually what needs spicing up. It’s not, “Oh. We need to learn how to do backflips while we have sex.” It’s, “Oh. I need to really listen to this person’s needs. I really need to be more attentive to where they’re at emotionally before I start touching them. And to maybe gradually ease into a physical encounter, right?” And that only comes from perspective. And perspective comes from interaction with prayer, with like going deep within. And also asking other people about what their opinion is so that you can have more well-rounded sex. Because, honestly, speaking, like in our relationship, it took a bunch of years before I younger, was able to really enjoy sex and really, like have, you know, genuine orgasms. And that was, it was not a physical issue. You know, for a short period of time, it was because of the delivery. But before and after that period of time, it was totally mental and emotional, and spiritual. And so, that’s the stuff that we needed help with. Not physically. We’re still young. Despite what some people may say, we are still young. And so, it’s not like, you know, a body thing. It’s, it’s the rest of us and that we needed talking. A lot of talking with each other, with other people, you know. And a lot of prayer and meditation.

Sammy Uyama: Yeah. Then, I, another point to add. I can hear the “Buts”, the “Yeah”. Buts, what-ifs, and, you know all that. All those, you know, one of them being. Now, what if you’re looking for, like, it’s called porn, but something that is actually meant to be educational, right? And instructional. It’s not meant to be sensational. And, you know, it’s an actual couple having sex and, you know, some may be, something like that. And so, you know, what I would say to that is, that it’s, I mean, looking, using turning to porn in any form to learn something, it’s like, at best, you, you’re like, sifting through a dumpster to find an edible french fry. It’s like there’s, you have to go through a lot of garbage in order to find something that might be usable. Actually gives something helpful for your relationship. But that’s, that’s still, it still detracts from the natural way of learning, right? It’s like, it’s like trying to take out the human interaction element. And it’s still trying, it’s still trying to, you know, learn, use. There’s something about it, it’s probably something about the not comfortability of talking about sex. It’s like the ease of using the internet, right? To ask uncomfortable or sensitive questions, and get them answered. But that, you know, instructional videos. I think, have a play, you know, it’s important for a couple every man and every woman understand the anatomy of the female sexual organ, right? That’s important to understand. And most useful when you’re actually looking at a diagram and things are pointed out, rather than just trying to describe it.

Andrew Love: Sure. 

Sammy Uyama: There’s definitely, there’s definitely place. Places, you know, for things like that. That’s still at the level of the body. And the real value of, the real method of deepening your sexual relationship is transcending body and interacting with spirit and mind and his deeper connection levels. And, you know, that you get insight into that through, you know, like interaction with, like learning from other people because they, these are the tidbits that they pass along from you. Be surprised if to actually, ask people to actually know what you’re talking about. If you’re asked them, what are the five best things, you can do to improve your sexual relationship? People actually know what they’re talking about, within the top three would probably have nothing to do with sex itself. It’s everything outside of the bedroom, and just the relationship that you make each other.

Andrew Love: Yeah. And that would even be a very difficult situation, if sex, physical sex was the only thing you had going for you in your relationship. That, that relationship is doomed to cause pain and damage wherever it goes. Because you’re hanging on by a thread. Because you, I mean, we are not our bodies. Like, we’re told we are through most of society, that’s what we care about and invest in mostly. But, I mean, when somebody insults you, it’s not your body that you care about. It hurts, it hurts you, as a person. You are a person who is so much more than just a body. And if you don’t have somebody to take care of you, it’s hard to really feel good. And so, when you’re in a relationship, especially, to help that person feel beautiful, or if you’re a woman to help them, your husband feels like really powerful and, and, I don’t know, handsome or whatever, whatever it is, like, on an ongoing, you know, relationship that’s so important. And making him or her look at other beautiful people doesn’t make you feel more beautiful. Trust me. Or handsome, right? And it’s just like, you’re not going to get rich by watching somebody talk about how much money they have. And you’re not going to be happy by watching people just be happy. You have to learn how to generate genuine connections. And that’s, that takes a well rounded to well-rounded people in the case of sex. So, yeah. You can’t learn any of that from you know, people having sex with each other on a screen. And as Sammy said, the difference between watching something informational, and even scientific to learn about the clitoral or something like that is like it shouldn’t be a turn-on, right? Because then you’re investing some of your emotion and some of your, you know, some this, these internal juices on something outside of your relationship, right? But you can like reading books about, I don’t know Kama Sutra or whatever. Like they have pictures. Learn from drawings or whatever, like. So many other ways than just porn. Because porn just pulls you in. Porns is looking for like, just like social media, right? “Oh, I just need to go check one message on messenger.” Two hours later, you’re like, “What the hell. I did not mean to watch, you know, all those cat videos. My God, what have I done with my life.” It’s the same with porn is just looking for a hook is like, “Oh, yeah. No. We just want to check out this one video…” 

Sammy Uyama: Yeah. That one word triggered a whole slew of arousal. That is such, that’s, I think, probably a key, key thing. It’s like, that is something to look at. It’s like, what are you leaning on or relying on for arousal in your relationship? And if it’s anything other than one another. I mean, that’s like a symptom or an indicator of something to be invested in. And that’s such a, it, it’s, I guess, having first faith and then experience with, with that point that you talked about of investment. And when you invest in love into something, it returns beauty. And that’s exactly what this concept is. And, and what. It gets disregarded, and a lot of sex talk, right? It’s like, “Oh, yeah. Things get dull. So, you got to spice it up. It’s like common vernacular. But it’s like that. And so, you know, we’re here. There’s not a lot of stuff that we really like, you know, you, Andrew, you and I, we really plant our flag on very firmly. A lot of, we’re always like, “Hey, man.” We always have that disclaimer of like, “Hey, you know, this is just us. What we think. But this is something we’re both, you know, this is where we’re drawing the line in the sand here. So, you’re welcome to come at us and fight us on this point.” It’s like if you were looking in, you know, the most fulfilling relationship is when you’re finding arousal and, and any, and in, your finding arousal and excitement in each other, right? And you’re turning that energy inward to one another. You’re not like trying to pull it from something else. And, and try to just redirect it. And, and hope it, it has, it’s a transfer as well.

Andrew Love: Sure. An important thing to consider is what you want out of a relationship. Okay? Because you and I, Sammy, we debated somebody for quite a long time. And it was a very wonderful debate because everybody was respectful. About the validity of, of pornography. And it’s not that bad, this kind of thing. And then, we asked this person we were debating, “Well, how are your relationships?” And it turned out that they couldn’t sustain relationships. They couldn’t sustain love, right? So, this is an incredibly important point. If your goal is just to perpetually be in kind of plastic relationships that you throw away after you know, one-time use or a few times use, then we have nothing really to say for you. Because that’s what you want, or that’s what you profess to one. But this is a point that we’re making to people who really want the most out of a relationship, right? And Christianity uses the quote from Jesus that, you know, talks about you, even, if you sexualize a woman, you’re having an affair with her. Like is, and then, there are other theologians who argue that and say, “No, he didn’t mean that. And blah, blah, blah.” So, we can just leave

Sammy Uyama: It’s the, uh, if you covet your neighbor’s wife. That, that one?

Andrew Love: Yeah, that whole. Just the premise that the affair starts in your mind. But it’s actually being you know, like healthy psychology. I mean, the psychology that wants people to stick together. That believes in relationships and believes in love. That kind of psychology really says that all affairs start emotionally. So, the moment that you’re investing your sexuality outside of your relationship, the affair has already begun in a very small way. It doesn’t mean that it’s, you know, married or divorced or anything like that. You know, or that it’s, you can’t fix it or you can’t course correct that. None of that. It just means that in a small, like microdoses of drugs, this is a microdose of an affair, right? And when you compound that. And even, if the couple’s doing it at the same time, you’re both just willingly that, “Oh. You have a crush, then I have a crush.” And then, it’s just creating excitement outside of each other. And that’s something that I know to be true is that we have a desire for novelty, okay? And that’s something that science has proven is a huge reason why we swipe up when we’re on Facebook is just the newness. Like our brains, we get this mini hit of dopamine every time we swipe up. And that’s using, that’s like, that is plagiarizing the true way that we could be using our novelty part of our brain. The hard way of using our novelty, the low, the road less traveled. But the best way is to find a new way to see your spouse all the time. That’s really hard. To be turned on to the same person or to be turned on by the same person again, and again, and again. Year after year after year for new reasons. Because you, yourself are growing. If you need to spice up your relationship, chances are you probably not spicing up your own personal life very much. You probably stuck in a rut, right? Most affairs happen when somebody feels stuck. “Oh, I need to change. I hate my job. I hate this.” And so, they want to change their external environment because I think that’ll bring them joy. No, it’s your emotional and spiritually stuck. You stop growing. You stop learning after university because you stopped growing your brain. You stop growing after Sunday, if you even go to church, or if you left religion. You stop, you know, really getting inquisitive and really challenging yourself. And so, you are at a standstill. And so, you can do as much as you want. And you’re just borrowing somebody else’s novelty, somebody else’s excitement, but you are not exciting. So, it will not make your relationship better. If you need something outside of you to feel excited means that you are not exciting people. That’s the real problem. It’s you’re not exciting. You’re not living. Like if you, when you’re really like living a life of meaning and value. It’s like, I remember this one guy, you and I know. His name is Bob. Bob Pea. He talks about energy and he’s like, he’s 80 something. And he’s like people always say, “Hey, Bob. Where do you get all this energy?” He’s like, “We’re made of energy. I just connect with it.” Do you know? I love that. That’s just, are you engaged in life and meaning in life? And so, when you are like that, trust me, you become, you get, you get all the vitality you need. Sex comes very naturally. When you have a healthy mind, healthy body, healthy spirit, healthy heart. It’s like it happens. You don’t need to force it. But it’s like when you’re stagnant, you want to borrow somebody else’s excitement. And that’s what point is, as a couple.

Sammy Uyama: That, it’s the really cool direction we took. This start, you know, the simple question of what’s the big deal of watching porn together with your spouse, and go, we went really deep with that. And can’t be, you got to unstuck yourself. And you got to grow. 

Andrew Love: Yeah, there’s nothing unexciting about your spouse. Other than the way that you see them is old. You need to see them fresh. And there’s, you know, like, there’s a million ways to be turned on by your spouse if you put in the work. And sometimes, it does take work.

Sammy Uyama: And porn distracts from all that. It’s just one final point, it’s like, porn is, porn is easy enough. Like, doesn’t give you the, in the end, what you want method of doing something that’s hard. And then, you know, on top of that, porn makes it even harder to do the hard stuff. It’s so like, it’s, it’s like it’s, it’s such a distraction for one. And it’s like trying to see your wife and, or your spouse as new, right? As with fresh eyes. It’s really hard when you can just easily look at something new and fresh with just clicks. You don’t need to put any energy into it or use your imagination anyway. You can find newness, or novelty and much easier way, right? And then, and, and you know, with much bounce your bodies, I get in these, right? It’s just everything about porn just makes it much harder to do the work of investing in a good relationship.

Andrew Love: So, so here, based on what Sammy just said, you have two options. One is to do the work of trying to fit your spouse into your heart or trying to expand your heart to fit your spouse and, or the other option is to try to force your spouse to fit into your fantasy. Which is porn. Which is like making them be more like that. So, you, you’re either proactively doing one thing or the other. You’re expanding your heart to fit your spouse in there or you’re trying to shrink your spouse to fit into your fantasy and reduce them to whatever it is that you like, at the moment.

Sammy Uyama: Well, put. Which is really sad. It’s not praying and. Yeah, you know, how, how, how much that would kill a spouse to hear the implication of it, right? It’s like, well, everyone deep down wants, like your, I love you the way you are and you’re, you’re great, you’re good enough. And the implication of as the exact opposite is like, I don’t like you the way that you are and you need to change. 

Andrew Love: Yeah. And, and you, you don’t even have to say it, they’ll feel it. The more that you’ve kind of coerce and forced them. And it’s, it’s very seldom to see a couple who are equally 100% excited to watch porn together, continually. That behavior is driven by one party or the other. What you see is, yeah, less and less excitement from the other person and it turns into a big problem. We’ve seen it, we’ve heard, we’ve seen people on the other side. So, we will work on getting a couple in and having this conversation and having more experience other than, you know, prudish, Sammy and I. Old man, Sammy and Andy. So, we will find that couple and we will bring them in. Because again, we don’t, a lot of this stuff can come off preachy. It’s just, we’re extremely passionate about thinking more deeply about this stuff. And we’ve thought a lot about it. We haven’t been to the ends of these thought processes and we will continue to think. But if you have any questions for us, please send them our way. If you have any comments, or if you have any insights, please inform us.

Sammy Uyama: We want to think deeply about these things. And we hope that you can think deeply about these things. And all we’re, all we’re doing is stimulating some thought. And preachy, I think what preachy is, is saying, is that, the idea that you should listen to me. Just because it’s what I’m saying, right? It’s like but you know, it’s definitely not what we want. We want just to help you look deeper at the things that are important for your life. And if you’ve got anything to add, yeah, exactly what Andrew said, we want to hear it. We’d love to hear your thoughts. Get you on the show, even. Just help us see things more, more clearly.

Andrew Love: Let’s go.

Sammy Uyama: Yes, yeah. So, ladies and gentlemen, that’s all we got for you on this topic. Next time, we’re gonna, we got another myth-buster coming up next week. And you can look forward to that one. But for now, we’ll be tuning out. It’s Mr. Sammy Uyama together with Mr. And I don’t want my glasses on right now. S,  I can like kind of see you smiling but I’ve no idea what, what kind of face you’re doing? 

Andrew Love: You don’t even know who I am. I thought you’re gonna say that “I don’t have my glasses. Who am I talking to?” Andrew Love signing out and we are happy to have you on the show listening to us. We hope it was helpful. God bless your mind, body, heart, and soul. Peace.

 

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#49 – ‌High Noon 2021 Launch

This makes for a lovely episode: listen to an inspiring and enchanting love story of High Noon Families’ the School of Love project directors, Jario and Leena Vincenz-Gavin. 

Married for 13 years, these two have grown a lot and discovered many things about themselves, their work, and each other. Apart from being the fuel for families to mend their relationships, they also became a role model for couples working in the same environment, believing that learning about each other’s strengths and weaknesses will help create that perfect balance in marriage and relationships. 

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